Atlantis

[Trillian]

I always wanted there to be an Atlantis and have had many a dream where I have been escaping from the volcanic eruptions, struggling to get away from the burning island.

The dream always scares me. I do not believe that my dream is a vision of a previous life, but probably of me running away from problems in real life. These dreams are so graphic, people burning and total chaos.

[I, Brian]

Spartel Island off Spain is now being fingered as a location for the original Atlantis account - certainly the geography of the account seems better than other suggestions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4153008.stm

[Postmaster]

Trillian that is interesting, to me I'd say you are running away from or battling morral cor"ruption".. The symbolism of the volcanic e"ruption"s. In fact it's a postive sign that you will succeed.

[Nogodnomasters]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Spartel Island off Spain is now being fingered as a location for the original Atlantis account - certainly the geography of the account seems better than other suggestions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4153008.stm

Island to small. No known people lived on the island, let alone an advanced culture. The time period is too far back for the collective memory of mankind. This would have been an oral tradition for nearly 10,000 years. Not likely the tale could have existed that long and even less likely it would resemble the original tale.

Thera is it.

[taijasi]

It may be of interest to some to visit the following two pages on Atlantis and Lost Lemuria. These are direct links to the map pages at Sacred-Texts.com from W. Scott-Elliot's book, published in 1904. Anyone open-minded enough to peruse these maps might want to do so carefully. They are listed in chronological order.

The Lemurian period (referring to the continent, or land-mass configuration so-named after its Lemur-like inhabitants) dates back approx. 18 million years. Prior to this, a physical planet did exist (the geological record proves this) ... but Humanity did not exist in solid, liquid & gaseous matter, or so the esoteric record indicates. We were still in the process of concretizing, or materializing.

Two major evolutionary periods (from the Human perspective) occurred prior to the Lemurian, these being the Hyporborean and the Polarian, in reverse order. The Polarian was the first, occurring at the magnetic pole many millions of years of ago. Theosophically these are described as the 1st and 2nd Root races of the one race, Humanity.

Lemuria came 3rd, and is mentioned in the Bible as the race of giants. The fossil record also will one day bear witness to our 18 feet tall ancestors. Additionally, the statues at Bamian, destroyed by Al Quaeda, attested to our size. Five statues existed in all, one for each race including the present (Aryan), though only two have been discovered ... possibly a third. See this reference. The largest two statues are meant to depict our relative size - though not appearance (being rebuilt by Buddhists to preserve the record) - during the first two races.

Atlantis is the 4th of seven root races which are destined to evolve upon this planet. The maps (and the estoeric record) indicate that the Atlantean period reached its zenith about a million years ago, at which point the 5th, or Aryan race began as an offshoot. Atlantis suffered catastrophes as a direct result of our wickedness, in that we refused the Divine leadership of our spiritual Teachers ... who walked openly among us as intended by the Divine Plan.

Gee, let's think: God is supposed to be all-powerful, all-loving, all-wise & all-knowing, but he doesn't have a damn good idea of how evolution is supposed to proceed? Errr, hmmm. Think again. We, however, do have `free will,' including the ability to stall any real moral/spiritual progress for awhile, if that is our prerogative. Pity, yet thus we learn.

So Humanity banished the Hierarchy, and the latter withdrew publicly, but remained upon the planet spiritually to guide us, with select members yet incarnate - including the Christ, in physical body, for those few who need to find him/them in this manner. And so the Teachers are here, Christ's elect, whose time has come for Reappearance on the world stage. And this is why it has been possible to meet such individuals (and groups) for many years now, as we invoke Divine aid.

Atlantis suffered tremendous cataclysms around 800,000 & 200,000 years ago, then another about 75,000BC. Remaining were two large islands, Ruta & Daitya, until the latter catastrophe. This left Poseidonis, of which Plato spoke ... yet this island was much larger than the state of Texas, as indicated on the map. Finally, that island sank in 9654BC, as records will one day evidence. Plato could only pass on a minute fragment of what he knew, as an Initiate.

The world today is ready for more of its history, but only so much of its future, because we are dangerously close to yet additional cataclysm. Racial (Human) karma, and not the whim or caprice of an unruly, childish deity, is what governs our collective future, just as my thought, speech & actions determine my own (future). Egad!!! Fancy that, the idea of responsibility!

`Arya' simply means wise, or sage in Sanskrit. Thus our 5th root race should be the race of sages. Aryan is a title we are scarcely worthy to receive, yet. Fifth root race origins go back a million years, and can be traced from India, the code of Manu, Noah & his sons, Moses/Akhenaton, and unto present day America, New Zealand/Australia, and of course, all of Europe. All this stems from Vaivasvata Manu - one individual. If only we had his Wisdom, his Love, his Insight ... and that of his Brother, the Christ (Bodhisattva).

Buddhism preserves what I have related above (my take on Theosophical teachings, updated by Alice Bailey and by numerous Messengers in recent years) ... in the teaching of 5 Dhyani Buddhas and 5 Dhyani Bodhisattvas. These are named (look it up), Amitabha being one. They correspond to the five human races thus far. A profound symbolism is contained therein, Tibetan Buddhism being the closest thing to the Esoteric teachings & records.

Two races are yet to come: the 6th and 7th. In parts of California and New Zealand the 6th is developing (over many thousands of years). If we survive the present human crises, the 6th race will see a spiritual renaissance which we can hardly imagine. It's up to us, for the most part. Whether we support things like the xenophobic nuking of all potential enemies of the free world ... hmmm. WHAT!?!

Apathy, hate & fear are our worst enemies, not people of other cultures, other religions, or lacking in both. Better to be a humanistic materialist than a racist, a sexist, a bigot and a warmonger. I use the word `race' in mentioning the Atlaneans, Lemurians, etc. ... but hesitatingly.

The Path of Discipleship is traveled by people of every creed and background, in every country of the world. The Call can be heard, sounded by the Soul within every individual and equally present within Humanity as a whole. It is not easy to answer, because we must do so daily (dying, as it were, to the personal self). It is not a one-time deal. The challenges increase. And even the rewards may come few & far between. But the Cause is the only one worth fighting for.

The fact that Atlantis had technologies we have yet to discover ... should not be surprising. The average citizen at that time did not really understand these technologies, being provided as they were by the ruling priesthood, under Divine Guidance. As the priesthood became corrupt (gee, sound famliar?), such technologies were withdrawn. But the abuse of our relationship with nature, and nature's elements (literally living entities), had its disastrous results ... including the flood catastrophes, and a temporary separation of Human evolution from the Deva evolution. And the latter has every bit as much right to be here, on this planet, as we do!

Only recently have there been experiments to re-open the channels of communication ... and if successful, if we are cooperative, the possbilities would be endless. We would not need harmful, polluting sources of energy (such as fossil fuels) any more. Problems such as world hunger and widespread poverty could and would be solvable very quickly & efficiently. This is to say nothing of the doors that would open for the discovery of and cooperation with other evolutions in this Solar System ... and in others. But we cannot proceed with our intentions of weaponizing space, of forcably colonizing any planet we choose, and with developing nuclear & neutronic arsenals of such deadly force ... that we leave other Humanities no choice but to police our efforts.

Evolution does have checks & balances. If you profess or pretend to believe in any kind of Divine Order or Being ... then surely you will see/agree that for us to continue unbridled & unchecked down the current path toward self-destruction at breakneck speed - is unhealthy for everyone. "Well gee, this is just how things are, it's how we've been for so long, and it's a bit silly for you to say we can change overnight." THIS is the kind of thing I sense from most people. I know the sentiment well. I mismanage my own life in this manner, so I can relate. But just as stagnation is unhealthy for the individual, and just as many, many people have this kind of self-defeating, self-destructive lifestyle ... so with the planet.

We are in a crisis. And we must look for help from every source we can imagine - and then some. Most folks have no clue what is indicated by the term `Cosmic Avatar,' or `Cosmic Aid.' Even to suggest that extra-planetary, or extra-Systemic aid has been invoked and is present, makes many people chuckle. Meanwhile we've shot down quite a few of our friends from other evolutions, and the discs appropriated by the U.S. Government (inhabitants included, in some cases) - are hardly the product of an overactive imagination.

We can learn a lot from Atlantis. Some of the lessons are at the individual level - and for all of us these will come into play as we begin to work off the final portions of our karma (possibly many lifetimes ahead). But for Humanity as a whole, the lesson is really as simply as survival - and we're about to muck it up. Anybody familiar with HHGttG? Errr, Slartibartfast? Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect? Ya see it's this great story about a planet that almost fulfilled its purpose and then ... ah, nevermind.

Meanwhile, I'm a goof because I believe in lost continents & little green men, but go ahead - keep sucking on that cup of coffee, smugly assuming x is x and can't be y. Y, I tell you. Y ...

(just trying to stir you up a bit )

cheerio,

protokletos

[earl]

Interesting story be it mythic or factual, taijasi. As for those Bamyan buddha statues-that's what they were-statues of buddha figures not statues of an extinct race of actual giants. Buddhists have tended at times to like to build their statues on a large scale-take the one in Kamakura, Japan for instance. However, even if nothing but a myth, there are certainly inspiring themes and spiritual directions such a myth may point to. Am curious, though, as to what written sources you drew on in laying out this "theory." Thanks, Earl

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by earl

Am curious, though, as to what written sources you drew on in laying out this "theory." Thanks, Earl

I recognize alot of this from the ideas of the Theosophical Society and Madame Blavatsky.

Is that the source for this?

[taijasi]

Yes, Abogado, the idea of 7 root races comes from Blavatsky, and other Theosophical authors, in the form I presented it. Alice A. Bailey also teaches these ideas with regard to Humanity's history. I'm not as versed in Rudolf Steiner's Anthroposophy, but I believe he expressed similar ideas. Likewise with Max Heindel's Rosicrucian CosmoConception.

Actually, these teachings are part & parcel of the Vedas, but one must be a well-versed scholar to isolate the threads (sic). Vaivasvata Manu figures prominently (the true Noah of Judaism), and imho complete sense is made of the soteriological nonsense which I take churchianity to otherwise be (the error lying with the earliest followers, and those ever since - certainly not with the founder).

Atlantis is perhaps a threat to those who would feign imagine us the creme de la creme - as if Nature would not be so gracious as to bury our sordid past (the tabula rasa) on the collective scale just as the individual ... in order that we might be the less burdened by our previous failures. Precious few individuals can actually remember anything of Atlantean embodiments, whereas the number that have insight into more recent lives is probably tens or hundreds of millions. Isolating those who actually see these insights for what they are - I would still estimate many, many millions. Skeptical? Start inquiring.

I love the attitude that says: I know x to be the case ... therefore, y is wrong. Nothing you can do or say will lead me to believe y, because my mind is already made up. (Facts are irrelevant, including all evidence that would otherwise & normally be overwhelming.) NOW - go ahead with your idea? What was it you were trying to tell me?

And thus countless individuals and generations of would-be seekers have approached the teachings of the Ageless Wisdom (Theos-Sophia, `Wisdom of God'). It is my belief that the poet Vyasa authored the Vedas many tens of thousands of years ago, but "experts" today reduce that figure by a factor of ten. Again this great Sage incarnated, as Orpheus the lyricist, as Thoth-Hermes the Thrice-Greatest, as the original Zarathustra ... and finally, as Gotama Siddharta, Shakyamuni Buddha.

In order to correct karmic error (his compassion was so great that he revealed more of the esoteric doctrine than might have been prudent) ... Shakyamuni again appeared, vicariously as Shankara, as well as via Padmasambava and Tsongkapa. Every Wesak/Vaishaka (a Hindu Festival associated with Gemini) ... he once again blesses Humanity from beyond Nirvana. Again, yes, more legend (based on ... ?). Google the discovery of a possible location for this sacred valley in Tibet. Photos included. Good research, imho.

Esoteric teachings - through Alice Bailey, et al - indicated that coincident with the Reappearance of the Christ comes the Externalization of the Hierarchy (the Teachers we banished during the decadence Atlantis), and the Restoration of the Mysteries. Martyrs for the latter cause in recent millennia, especially during the dark days of the Inquisition, must surely be countless. The good names of the Comte de St. Germaine and Cagliostro are slandered as imposters (or made absurd by the I AM movement), while evil popes are lifted on high and venerated. Tyrants and demagogues would bury the Truth and needlessly perpetuate human suffering and misery ... while people of Goodwill stand ready worldwide and need little more than mobilization to turn the tides on the forces of hate, greed & warmongering.

I like this forum, because it's the best I've found yet when it comes to a good blend of open-mindedness, scholarly inquiry, and the expression of ideas ranging from sensible & routine to far-fetched & flaky, etc. I only know about 3 people who have a clue what I'm talking about most of the time. But yes, I've been a student of the Ageless Wisdom for 15 years or so, Theosophy being the first thing that made sense in my adult life.

Peace,

Protokletos

[Abogado del Diablo]

Modern Theosophy is very interesting to me. One of these days, I'd like to truly dig into it and decipher its symbols.

[earl]

I have some cursory understanding of contemporary theosophic beliefs, ( they were kind of "New Age" before there was a "New Age"), and actually find myself in agreement with a number of their beliefs-just didn't know that this detailed stuff posted re Atlantis, etc. was part of their belief system-guess that's because my knowledge of theosophy is cursory Interesting beliefs re that. Take care, Earl

[Nogodnomasters]

Originally Posted by Abogado del Diablo

I recognize alot of this from the ideas of the Theosophical Society and Madame Blavatsky.

Is that the source for this?

Madame Blavatsky didn't always use source material. Some of her information came through "channeling." My "channeling" claims her "channeling" is wrong and I have geological data to back me up. Go figure.

[Abogado del Diablo]

Originally Posted by Nogodnomasters

Madame Blavatsky didn't always use source material. Some of her information came through "channeling." My "channeling" claims her "channeling" is wrong and I have geological data to back me up. Go figure.

It all depends on whether you take it literally.

[taijasi]

Origins ...

The sources of Blavatsky's "channeling" (and this term is not preferred by Theosophists) can be met, in person, if one so wishes. They were primarily the three Mahatmas (`Great Souls') DK, KH, and Morya. Notwithstanding such absolute bunk as K. Paul Johnson's faux-exposes, much has been written by sources both Theosophical and otherwise as to the veracity of such figures. Of course, HPB has been slandered horribly over the years.

Countless individuals in India, Tibet, Europe, Russia, the UK, and America, have either met one of these three Teachers in person, have experienced a temporary manifestation/materialization of the same (a mayavirupa), or have contacted them in a dream/meditation experience. Perhaps millions more have managed to contact a thought-form of their Master - which is not the same, but at least gives a sort of reality to them.

The Secret Doctrine was primirily dictated to HPB in the same way you might dictate a letter to another person from the next room (except that the author was around the globe, in Tibet). For this reason, Blavatsky is often referred to as the amanuensis, or secretary, of the Master DK. Later, Alice Bailey performed a similar role (from 1919-1949). Plenty of Theosophists squabbled over such a possibility, as if they somehow had a monopoly on Truth, or were the sole spokespiece for the Great Ones. Sounds so much like Xian Fundamentalism.

Alice Bailey was thus not entirely popular with many Theosophists, though anyone open to the Truth would surely have recognized her as the Messenger she was. Both Blavatsky and Bailey have been recognized worldwide by those with spiritual discernment (viveka) as exactly what they claimed - no more & no less. The overly devotional and easily impressionable individual is quick to make a guru of such Messengers, failing to find the Soul within. Just as sadly the skeptic and the material-minded would rather die than recognize or admit that Revelation is easily within the reach of the sincere student and the pure of heart. Didn't Christ say this would be so, and that He would be with us until the end of the Era?

How difficult it is for many to see that the source of Truth is One, and that Christ, Buddha, Krishna and Mohammed were speaking for the same Cause, inspired by the same Spirit, and had in mind exactly the same great Purpose. Yet we still fight wars, and have heated debates about what to call the God of Love, proving with our angry & hurtful words that we know Him not. Christ knew Him, but the disciples were unable to comprehend, as the Bible illustrates time & time again.

Blavatsky spent 3 years living with her Teacher (Master Morya) in his Himalayan retreat. She met the Masters DK (Djwal Khul) and Kuthumi face to face. She may well have set eyes on the Buddha Himself, or at least on the closest thing to his rupa as anyone has seen for 2500 years (vide one of the Mahatma Letters in which she is said to be under care of the Lord Sangyas). She probably met the Christ, face to face. Certainly in years preceding, during, and following her visit to Tibet she either met, or saw in their mayavirupas (temporary materilizations) perhaps a dozen or more Mahatmas.

The total number of the latter, according to the Tibetan's writings, is about 63, counting the Christ, the Manu (as in, The Code of - ), and the Maha-Chohan (or Lord of Civilization). Seven Ray Ashrams are said to exist, with Mahatmas such as M, KH, Jesus, et al as the Heads (or Hearts, as would be more appropriate). Subsidiary Ashrams, on the sub-rays of the Seven Rays (google this, or look it up on Amazon), amount to another 42, each with a Master at its head. Not all Masters take pupils, not all Ashrams are "externalizing" (entering the world stage, in terms of outer events) at this time. `Ascended Masters,' btw, as popularized by the Ballards, the I AM movement, the Prophets, et al, do not exist - at least not as such. Here is yet another example of charismatic zeal and fanaticism gone wrong.

But Master Jesus, Master KH, and Master M are particularly active with their Ashrams and larger groups of disciples (the NGWS, or New Group of World Servers, en masse). The latter number of individuals is quite large, not all recognizing in outer awareness their existence as `disciples,' yet each living according to what Master Morya called `The Living Ethics' of the New Era ... in the Agni Yoga Teachings. So another Messenger presented part of the Ancient Wisdom in a format more appropriate for modern times. This was Helena Roerich, wife of the famous Russian painter, Nicholas Roerich. See http://www.agniyoga.org for these teachings, available online. Or visit http://www.netnews.org for the Teachings of the Tibetan Master (DK) through Alice Bailey.

The image of DK on the latter site is quite distorted - yet not utterly unlike him. Anyone who would like to see images of these supposed Masters may visit http://www.uncg.edu/~alstins2/anrias/ ... although naturally everything you see is simply - the fanciful work of someone's overactive imagination, lent credence by the gullible such as myself. This is exactly how the Tibetan was able to mail packages from Tibet to Alice Bailey in America. Again, even the numbers of individuals having met one of the Mahatmas in some form or another, and having chosen to write about it, is many, many dozens.

But as I said at the start of this post, anyone truly determined to meet a Mahatma certainly can. `When the student is ready, the Master appears.' Such is the LAW. Yet the one who is simply determined to prove himself correct - insisting that this is all bunk, need not bother. He will never find proof to the contrary. So is it all self-fulfilling?

In a sense, yes. I sincerely believe (!) that without at least affirming the possibility of such beings as Wise, Loving Teachers - existing on our planet only to safeguard our (collective) future and lead the sincere seeker to Truth - w/o such an affirmation, we may as well keep Wandering. Once we have met such a Teacher, however, we begin to build the Temple that is never erected with human hands - and which, verily, Christ did raise within three days of his death, as he promised. It is a bit of a Catch-22, this faith thing ... yet at times such as these (the full moon of Leo) ... even the foolhardy and the apostate, such as myself - cannot but see and proclaim what he knows. Still, the message of I Cor. 13 comes tumbling into my head, and I return - to pondering.

Blessings,

protokletos

[ProphetSmurf]

During the whole summer, the sun hid itself behind the clouds, as if unwilling to shine upon the earth. In the middle of the quietude, the earth began to quake as if it was dying. The mountains opened up to vomit forth fire and flames. Some of them sunk under the earth while in other places mountains rose out of the plains... Atland disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over the hills and dales that everything was buried under the seas. Many people were swallowed up by the earth, and others who had escaped the fire perished in the waters. --- Oera Linda

The Mayan race claim to have originated from either an island or continent called Aztlan. Volcanic activity drove them from their original homeland. Eventually their homeland sank into the sea. Their journey is written in the Codex Boturini.

I personally believe Atlantis somehow connected the Americas to the Old World. This theory may help explain many similarities of ancient South American cultures and Egyptians, a continental bridge to allow for knowledge to be shared. Perhaps todays South American Indians are whats left of Atlantis. Incan,Mayan, and Aztec, among others.

[Green Knight]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the spiritual community of the Damanhur in Northern Italy. They are the worlds foremost spiritual researchers and have alot to say about Atlantis. This amazing community are trying to establish a new people. They have been around for 27 years and it that time have achieved outstanding things. Like building an incredible underground temple deep into a mountainside for one. Also a number of their community members have been elected as mayor's and councillors in the surrounding geographic region enabling them to help make a positive impact on thousands of lives of ordinary local people despite them possessing controversial beliefs.

Anyway, from the depths of their temple they practise time travel and about 15 years ago two of their members supposedly visited Atlantis. One was an artist and when he returned he painted what he saw (you can see these pictures on their website). The Damanhurians talk of Atlantis existing in a different dimension to this one some 500,000 years ago, also at this time human beings were able to live much longer 500 years or so. This confers with an ancient wisdom tradition that Gurdieff supposedly discovered on his travels. Anyway, shortly after that time when Atlantis fell. The human soul fell as well, to a lower dimension or the one we are experiencing now.

I know some of you will think 'Time travel? What the...' but time travel aside what these Damanhurians have achieved in 25 years in terms of organisation is incredible.