Atheists challenge the religious right

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I don't understand the necessity of Jesus death, or original sin, or the "plan of salvation." I know what Christians believe, and I know what the Bible says, but I don't understand the nuts and bolts of why and how.

Chris

I have only been studying Christianity for a few years, but from my simple take on it you need to start with a willing heart. I find that God loves one-on-one questions (you and God), but you have to be willing to dialogue with Him and listen to the answers and not just continuously ask valid question after valid question.

The necessity of Jesus death was God taking on flesh, being born fully human, going through everything we encounter, living an exceptional life, showing the powers that be how truly wrong and idiotic they were, and satisfying the law of blood sacrifice with his death on the cross.

If you are truly sincere in your studying, you'll eventually get the plan of salvation. (You don't strike me as a "blind faith" kind of person.)

As for "original sin" (fall of man), you are asking why God created us like we are. One reason is so we can relate to one another. Another is so we come to Him in true humility. Some other really good answers are in your heart and you know what you need to do... (Hint: bible)

sincerely, Karen

[Prober]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Thanks Mark!

Just a question: Does God actually do any judging at the "final judgement"? IOW, aside from judgement being passed, is there any debate where God makes judgement calls? You know, like instant replay on an iffy call?

Chris

Technically, no...I guess it should be called the final reward or something.

I believe the "investigative judgement" is going on now, starting with the dead and then working on the living (reviewing their lives).

When God has caught up on this backlog and the last living person has been reviewed, Jesus will return.

At that point, there will be no second chances.

The broadcast of this review is for everyone (including the devil) to be able to see and acknowledge (which they will) that God was and is fair.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by pattimax

I truly wish you would realize that true Christianity has nothing to do with titles or labels. At the second coming of Christ, I seriously doubt there will be any self-aggrandizement.

I think it does.... To many. People seem to cling on and love titles... ooooh a title... goody goody gum drops! Titles In my own opinon mean jack. But alot more people seem to see titles, with more value and worth than deeds.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Paladin

My favorite line in the above article:

Yet one critic, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, calls for a truce: "We've suffered enough from religious intolerance that the last thing the world needs is irreligious intolerance."

Even the best apologetics won't sway those whose mind is made up. What science must inherently lack, religion has always provided. We are born into this crazy debate, and it will continue long after we are gone, and the only thing a believer could ever do to sway anyone's opinion is to embody that which she/he believes in the spirit of compassion, love, and the actions that are spawned by those truths.

Peace
Mark

In otherwords, "stop talking, start walking"...

[Zagreus]

Originally Posted by pattimax

The necessity of Jesus death was ... satisfying the law of blood sacrifice with his death on the cross.

If you are truly sincere in your studying, you'll eventually get the plan of salvation.

I think another *good* possibility is that you will reject the idea of blood sacrifice altogether - as something humanity has outlived and outgrown... and that the plan of salvation may come to mean something else entirely. This still has everything to do with accepting Christ.

~Zag

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Zagreus

I think another *good* possibility is that you will reject the idea of blood sacrifice altogether - as something humanity has outlived and outgrown... and that the plan of salvation may come to mean something else entirely. This still has everything to do with accepting Christ.

~Zag

Hey Zag!
Blood sacrifices were part of God's Law in the Old Testament and it did not come with an acceptance option. Relax, Jesus Christ was the very last and eternal sacrifice. That is why they were constantly sacrificing animals in the Old Testament. Blood was required for forgiveness from God, but animal blood had no staying power. The blood of our lord, Jesus Christ was God's incredibly awesome gift to the world. His Blood is rather indelible. (magnificent staying power.) This has everything to do with accepting Christ.
sincerely, Karen


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I think it does.... To many. People seem to cling on and love titles... ooooh a title... goody goody gum drops! Titles In my own opinon mean jack. But alot more people seem to see titles, with more value and worth than deeds.

Do YOU realize what you're saying? You and God (along with many others) share the same opinion. wow.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In otherwords, "stop talking, start walking"...

Yup, thats the way I read it.

[Zagreus]

Ah well, what can I say ... it's just Highway 61 - Revisted.

Dare to be different.

~Zag

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

Originally Posted by Zagreus

Ah well, what can I say ... it's just Highway 61 - Revisted.

Dare to be different.

~Zag

Hey Zag...I got my kicks...on route 66.