Man superior to woman?

[Postmaster]

Let's have a look, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Baha'i, Buddhism, Gurus of the Sikhs.. All there religious founders including prophets and most (excluding a few) major figures in there religion all seem to be male.

When we look at it from a non religious point of view, it’s not hard to see that even in nature the female suffers greater burden and pain due to child birth.

I know that the Greeks and the pagan Gods had a more dualistic view of the world where man and women were a perfect balance and equally as great as each other and child birth and fertility was celebrated. But at the same time Greeks used to think low of the female in human form, she was merely an object, merely there to serve man in life and this is what led to homosexual spiritual love the Greeks practised and among there warriors.

Does Christianity see the female as an equal to men? Or is man more blessed in Christianity compared to the female due to the man being closer to god?

The story of Adam and eve is more ancient then the Greek Gods? And this universal story shows that man is superior to the women and explains why.

[khut]

read about adam and ulat , or adam and lilith.

adam and eve were not the original two in creation. lilith was edited out of the bible, but she is in the old sandscript documents antd the old jewish religion.
you can probably find it in google somewhere.

the adam and eve story makes much more sence when you get to read the whole thing.

being sexist is not in the religion but comes thru in the translation.

[Postmaster]

I don't think religion is sexist I only think people are ignorant. Thanks for the info, both men and women are equal however there is some truth in it that I can't explain it is the opposite of discrimination its truth. Often opposites are viewed oppositely, sometimes an old and angry lady could be beautiful and caring sometimes an insane person is more sane then the sane ..

[Sacredstar]

May we replace the word ignorance with the word innocence it is more palatible and harmonic for our energy systems.

My experience is that we are fools to believe the history of creation hence why the very first card in the major arcana is the fool which also represents innocence. It is written that the 22 Major Arcana is portrayed on the walls of the Great Pyramid at Giza and so this ancient monument holds many clues for humanity.

In olden days it was the woman that was the oracle due to the woman being more intuitive and sensitive. Hence why woman were brought up in temples and kept virgins it was considered that if you kept them pure there visions would have greater clarity.

And it is believed that there was a matrichial society prior to the patriachs that took over, was this in the days of Atlantis ? This we do not know for certain but yet the earliest finds of the Goddess is dated between 230,000 - 800,000 which is many millennia earlier then the said story of adam and eve.

Blessings in abundance

Sacredstar

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by khut

read about adam and ulat , or adam and lilith.

adam and eve were not the original two in creation. lilith was edited out of the bible, but she is in the old sandscript documents antd the old jewish religion.
you can probably find it in google somewhere.

the adam and eve story makes much more sence when you get to read the whole thing.

being sexist is not in the religion but comes thru in the translation.

Lilith is in the Bible, as a desert demon. Lilith is not in the old Jewish religion, but in Jewish fables, as a demon who would try to harm infants up to the 8th (for boys) and 21st (for girls) day of their new lives and was popular up to the 19th century. (Come to think of it, that might be the old explanation for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome...). Her persona was resurrected again in the late 1970s by feminists. The old sandscrit stones do not describe Lilith as the first wife of Adam, but rather a wind demon.

You can find it in any library. Look under Demons. You will not find Lilith in the Torah, except maybe as a demon.

Being sexist is all about behavior, not translation.

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Hmmm,

Woman was not taken from Man's head, to be above him, nor from his feet, to be below him, but from his side, to be equal to him. Woman was taken from under man's arm, to be protected by him, and from near his heart, to be loved by him.

Woman is life, and man is the servant of life.

I am the head of my house, because my wife said I could be (half joking/half serious).

v/r

Q

[Postmaster]

I am the head of my house, because my wife said I could be (half joking/half serious).

This true, they say the ladies wear the jeans, but men "like" to think they do

[khut]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Lilith is in the Bible, as a desert demon.

Q

i dont agree but i have no specific text to point to as i read about this years ago.

but i think ulat (or lilith) became a demon later in the same way that the sators with the hooves and the horns became satan. (you may also know the sators from greek mythology as the followers of pan)

i didnt write this next bit.
"Lilith is at least as old as the Bible, however, Lilith was expunged from the Christian Bible long ago. Lilith is said to be as old as the bible, because she is mentioned in the Mishna, a form of commentary on the Pentateuch. The Mishna was an oral tradition for much longer. Lilith, (also know as Lilit), was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to assimilate to Jewish mythology. Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith but she would not submit to him and desired to be the one above when they had sex. Adam, not allowing this, she flew away to the Red Sea. God sent angels to bring Lilith back, but she refused to return. She supposedly mated with "demons" and gave birth to "a hundred children a day". These offspring were the Lilim, Lamiae, Empusae or Succubae). Then God produced Eve as Lilith's more docile replacement. Lilith became the "Great Mother" of settled tribes who resisted
invasions of nomadic herdsmen represented by Adam. Early Hebrews disliked the Great Mother who is said to have drank the
blood of Abel after he was slain by Cain."



http://www.who2.com/lilith.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Lilith

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...138#post453138

it seems that there are hundreds of references like these on the net and evan more about lilith the demon so just pick the story you like more.

[Sacredstar]

Dear Q

Love it !

It is only a real man that can surrender to the nurture of woman and a real woman that can truly surrender to the protection of man.

and humility to laugh at oneself.

GOD bless you and yours

Sacredstar

[Marsh]

My Bible says this about women and men:

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

By this translation it is clear that both males and females are men: Creatures created in the image of God. I believe that there are literally thousands of years of injustice towards women rooted in this one, seemingly-tiny misconception surrounding the difference between man as the name of a creature, and man as a term referring to a male human being.

It is my hypothesis that the term "man" was hijacked, if you will, to mean something that it really does not. Think about it: Deer as an animal are divided into doe (female) and stag (male); chickens as an animal are divided into hen (female) and rooster (male); but man as an animal are divided into woman (female) and man (male). Something seems fishy here to me.

[bananabrain]

oh, do me a favour.lilith wasn't "edited out" of the bible. this is a really old chestnut. if you understand the genesis story properly you're not going to find it sexist or any of that bollocks. have a read of this source (by a *reputable* scholar)

http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/...06_Lilith.html

the references to lilith as a "desert demon" (i think it's in isaiah) are in no way a source for any of the "traditions" about adam, which are mostly right-on PC rubbish being peddled by people who don't understand the text. most of the stuff about lilith in midrashic sources is mediaeval at earliest (although there are a few Talmudic sources which are older) but, in any case, once you find out what they say, i don't know what you'd find so fantastic about this character that you'd insist on shoehorning her into genesis of all places. she's simply not that important and to suggest that she used to be is actually ridiculous. like eliezer segal says, we have bigger fish to fry and this is from the superstitious end of the pool.

Genesis 1:27 "So G!D Created man in the Divine Image, in the Image of G!D he was Created; male and female they were Created." [bananabrain's edit of the translation]

By this translation it is clear that both males and females are men: Creatures created in the image of G!D. I believe that there are literally thousands of years of injustice towards women rooted in this one, seemingly-tiny misconception surrounding the difference between man as the name of a creature, and man as a term referring to a male human being.

i kind of agree with you, but would have to say that there are volumes and volumes of commentary written on just that one verse. what it means is not clear, straightforward or simple. to say it is is to misunderstand the depth of the text.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Sacredstar]

Dear Marsh

Yes I agree there is more then meets the eye.

Does this throw any light on the inner meaning?

Jesus said ‘When you make the two One, and you make the inner like the outer, and the outer like the inner, and the above as the below, so that you make the male and female into a single one, in order that the male is not male nor the female made female: when you make your eyes into an eye, and a hand into a hand, and even an image into image, then you shall enter the kingdom’ GT: 22.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

[Postmaster]

But traditionally for all nations of the world, prophets and divine people are mostly men, men have a been having a closer connection to God then the female. In the case of Joan of Arc I think she even stoped having Periods, some sort of sign of purity. So man might have the ability to get closer to God then a female, but genereally speaking there are more women on earth to men that are closer to God, in kindness, care and love in an over all picture.


The Greek Orthodox Church does not allow allowed a female to kiss an icon if they are on there period and the females respect this. We all have to kiss the icons as we enter the church

Saying this the female deserves the up most respect and care.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by khut

i dont agree but i have no specific text to point to as i read about this years ago.

but i think ulat (or lilith) became a demon later in the same way that the sators with the hooves and the horns became satan. (you may also know the sators from greek mythology as the followers of pan)...

Hello Khut,

Here is what I found:

According to Encarta Encylopedia:

Lilith
Lilith, in Jewish folklore, is a demon that is an enemy of newborn children. The name Lilith is etymologically related to the Sumerian word lil (wind), not to the Hebrew word laylah (night), as was long supposed. Like the Sumerian wind demon and its later Babylonian counterpart, Lilith was regarded as a succubus, or female version of the incubus. In the popular imagination, Lilith eventually became confused with Lamashtu, the Babylonian child-slaying demon. The only biblical reference to Lilith is in Isaiah 34:14, in which she is depicted as a demon of the desert.
In postbiblical Jewish literature, Lilith came to be identified as Adam's first wife. The first fully developed account of her mythology is found in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, written between the 7th and 10th centuries. According to the Alphabet, when God decided to create a female companion for Adam, he created the first woman out of earth in the same way as he had created the first man. The pair immediately began to quarrel because Lilith refused to submit to Adam. Lilith fled, and in response to Adam's request, God sent three angels to bring her back. The angels told her that if she refused, one of her demon-children would die every day. Lilith refused to return to Adam and vowed that she would harm male infants up to the eighth day after birth and female infants up to the 20th day.

In traditional European Jewish communities, belief in Lilith persisted into the 19th century, and protective amulets were frequently placed near the bed of a woman about to give birth. Since the mid-1970s, Lilith has returned to Jewish poetry and fiction. In particular, she has been adopted by American Jewish feminists as a symbol of women's strength and independence. The Jewish feminist journal Lilith first appeared in 1976, and Jewish feminist theologians have worked to reinterpret the biblical story of Adam and Eve in light of Lilith's myth.

I find this fascinating, in light of the fact that the Bible (old testament), actually identifies such a being. Unfortunately it does not really expound on the issue, much.

There is much more, however this is a pretty good outline.

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Marsh

My Bible says this about women and men:

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

By this translation it is clear that both males and females are men: Creatures created in the image of God. I believe that there are literally thousands of years of injustice towards women rooted in this one, seemingly-tiny misconception surrounding the difference between man as the name of a creature, and man as a term referring to a male human being.

It is my hypothesis that the term "man" was hijacked, if you will, to mean something that it really does not. Think about it: Deer as an animal are divided into doe (female) and stag (male); chickens as an animal are divided into hen (female) and rooster (male); but man as an animal are divided into woman (female) and man (male). Something seems fishy here to me.

Actually there is no hijacking of anything. The old germanic/anglo-saxon term for human sexes is man and woman (man who gives birth) or (man with the womb). The latin term for sexes is male and female, again (male w/womb). Every definition of woman in most languages means man with womb, or man who conceives, or man who gives birth.

Nothing fishy about that, as a matter of fact

The injustice you perceive maybe in the biblical warning that after the fall, God allegedly stated that man (male) would rule over woman (female), and she would desire after him (seek power). However, it was written by people brought up in a patriarchal society (even that long ago).

I think Sacred has the right idea. Man has to learn to be nurtured by women, and women have to learn to be protected by men. The problem is that men think nurturing is a "sissy thing", and women think that being protected implies "helplessness". Neither could be farther from the truth.

Also, I'd like to see the "thousands of years of injustistice suffered by women" at the hands of men (historically speaking). He, he, he, for every society you present as male dominated (patriarchal), I will present to you another society being female dominated (matriarchal).

I guess perspective depends on what outcome we want, vs. what really is.

v/r

Q