another life

[Alex P]

I don't wish to start an argument or take this off topic brah, but it oringinated in Hinduism, so When the Romans came to make their main stream religion taking bits of this teaching here from the Jews, and here from the Pagans they took this concept on from Hinduism, which has to be the oldest known religion... So it's alot older than the abrahamic laws Brah.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Alex P

I don't wish to start an argument or take this off topic brah, but it oringinated in Hinduism, so When the Romans came to make their main stream religion taking bits of this teaching here from the Jews, and here from the Pagans they took this concept on from Hinduism, which has to be the oldest known religion... So it's alot older than the abrahamic laws Brah.

No argument, man. I was simply suggesting that it is also a biblical concept hinted at in the NT. I thought paganism was the oldest known religion, tho - I could be wrong, but I think I've heard people make this claim.

Doesn't matter how old the concept is - I find it to be probable, or just as probable as a single resurrection in to a heavenly kingdom. I find the concept to be comforting, yet disturbing. Comforting in that it kinda takes the sting out of death, and disturbing in that we have a long, long way to go before we find a peacful existance on earth...

Love

James

[Alex P]

Awesome Some people can get quickly offended so I wasn't toooooo sure how to do it... So put it out there. I guess that would depend on what we classed Pagan. I find the word Paganism a broad caterogory, which is good But no Hinduism to as far as my knowledge (If I am wrong, would Love to hear about it.)is the oldest -known- -major- religion.

Question brah, how does it work with heaven and reincarination? That is a curious question I'd Love to learn more on.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Alex P

Awesome Some people can get quickly offended so I wasn't toooooo sure how to do it... So put it out there. I guess that would depend on what we classed Pagan. I find the word Paganism a broad caterogory, which is good But no Hinduism to as far as my knowledge (If I am wrong, would Love to hear about it.)is the oldest -known- -major- religion.

Question brah, how does it work with heaven and reincarination? That is a curious question I'd Love to learn more on.

Who knows, man... I think as we progress as a civilization [humanity] heaven will come to fruition on earth. I think death will always be a part of life, but I think once we realize that it has no sting, then the fear of will go away.

o.k. I have a question for you, brother. You are 17th correct? You seem different - what happened? You were always quick witted [still are] but your attitude has changed somewhat, or am I mistaken about your identity altogether???

Love

James

[Alex P]

That is one pretty idea there... I like it

Oh 17th? Yeah that was me, Quick witted? But of course... Only changes are I felt something, and I accept Love for what it truly is, and brother, wow... And the other thing that has changed I realised I don't know everything.

My dear Vicky gave me a priceless look when I public announced I don't know everything, then to soften the blow to me she said well you know alot, and I replied yup, but don't know everything.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Alex P

That is one pretty idea there... I like it

Oh 17th? Yeah that was me, Quick witted? But of course... Only changes are I felt something, and I accept Love for what it truly is, and brother, wow... And the other thing that has changed I realised I don't know everything.

My dear Vicky gave me a priceless look when I public announced I don't know everything, then to soften the blow to me she said well you know alot, and I replied yup, but don't know everything.

None of us do...

...and yeah, "brother" - you are a brother. We are all in this crazy life together, man. I am so pleased that you got the love bug, bro. I can see nothing better than, lol.

but we are now getting off topic - What are your thoughts on reincarnation - possible, or not? If you did have past lives - would you consider yourself a young soul, or old? I'm a fairly young one [I think], but only because it took me so long to come to value others, and to view all as truly being equal, and having inherant value. I know, I was a selfrighteous putz for a VERY long time, lol

Love

James

[Alex P]

lol!

Yeah sorry topic swerv! So I think it doesn't happen, I believe we are all on an Oak tree shaped path, but, we've all started at very tip of the branches and head down to the main path to some thing... "else" that is all I can say. But, you never know, long old life ahead of me, maybe something might enlighten me on some other thought one day.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Alex P

lol!

Yeah sorry topic swerv! So I think it doesn't happen, I believe we are all on an Oak tree shaped path, but, we've all started at very tip of the branches and head down to the main path to some thing... "else" that is all I can say. But, you never know, long old life ahead of me, maybe something might enlighten me on some other thought one day.

What is "enlightenment" if not a true embracing of the journey itself? [Long life ahead of us all]

Love, bro

James

[Still thinking]

Hmm, my brain's buzzing! Every time I considered reincarnation in the past, it left me with an overwhelming sense of exhaustion! I always figured one life was tiring enough, I wouldn't want any more! lol But who of us truly knows? If it's true, tho, I would unfortunately consider myself a young soul; constantly realizing I have so much further to go. (Although I've been told I have an old soul, but I think those people meant it because I like older music\movies\cars\culture than my real age).

But as I said earlier, now that I look at people in terms of their souls, really just guessing at the state of their souls, I tend to look deeper. Anyhoo, . . . . *wandering aimlessly down the path* . . . . .

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Still thinking

Hmm, my brain's buzzing! Every time I considered reincarnation in the past, it left me with an overwhelming sense of exhaustion! I always figured one life was tiring enough, I wouldn't want any more! lol

lol, I figure it's a good chance to start all over - Everything will be new again - I find the thought refreshing, and hopeful.

James

[path_of_one]

I tend to think heaven is a state of unity with God, and hell is a state of separation from God. So regardless of my bodily form (or not), I am either closer to heaven or closer to hell. It is my hope that, where ever I go after this life, I journey ever nearer to God-- that God, Love, Christ is manifest ever more in me.

It took me a while before I grasped, through spiritual experience and not through intellect, the value of incarnation and of my own bodily experience. I became, at that point, overjoyed with life, so thankful to God for this amazing capacity to breathe- to experience the beauty that is life! When life seems exhausting to me, it is because I am not being aware of what it is to truly live. I am living in the world and not in God. When I'm living in the awareness of what is really happening, I just can't get enough of life, yet I am not afraid of death.

I'm reaching toward the kingdom of heaven within me. I don't want to wait until I die to get to heaven- I want to be in God right now.

I trust that God will put me where I should be after I die. Whether that is some brief rest in the Summerlands, or in a heaven like Christianity envisions, or in some new life (human or not, here or not), or whatever- it is not important. I have faith God will forgive me my mistakes and will help me journey onwards toward His/Her heart.

As for the oldest religion... The oldest form of religion is animism, found in nearly all indigenous, earth-based religions. The oldest religion that was highly structured and organized, and was heirarchical (with a priesthood) is, I believe, Hinduism. But state-based, centralized society with its large religion came very late in human history. We were hunter-gatherers living in small (10-30 people) groups for about 90% of human history. We figured out the whole agriculture and settling down thing rather late, and this is what allowed for an elite, specialized group of religious practitioners (priests) in Hinduism, Judaism, etc. Before that, we just had part-time guys and gals (shamans) that helps in mediating between our world and the world of spirit/otherworld.

Reincarnation is extremely common among earth-based, indigenous religions. However, many groups believed that we reincarnated with power animals (like ravens, killer whales, otters, etc.) back and forth over the years. Our brethren would die and become the animals that sacrificed themselves in the hunt for our survival, and later we would die and do the same for them. A never-ending cycle of mutual survival and care-taking with Nature. The main difference between this view and the views of reincarnation in modern world religions like Hinduism is that it seems with agriculture, people got uppity about their superior place in the food chain. So animals were seen as "lower" on the karmic ladder. The less free will and higher-order thinking, the farther away you were from reunion with the Divine (moksha). They also extended this to social caste and gender. So a woman had farther to go than a man, a lower class person had farther to go than an upper class person. This was all tied to perpetuating a caste based system that allowed the priestly class (Brahmins) to exploit the peoples they had conquered when they settled in India. It's really pretty fascinating history.

Suffice it to say that after agriculture, it seems in most religions animals and the rest of nature began to be regarded as "less than" humans in a spiritual sense.

I'm not sure that is the right way to look at animals and what we can learn from them...

And wil- that is very insightful about our bodies. Even in this life, our physical form is a transitory, ephemeral thing. It is only an illusion that we have any sense of bodily permanency. Kind of mind-blowing when you really think about it.

[bgruagach]

Path of One explained it pretty well. Keep in mind though that animism is a type of religious expression and in itself is not a particular religion (as is Christianity, or Judaism, or Islam.)

Paganism is really just a generic term and is not a specific religion. But it is true that Pagan religions preceded the Abrahamic religions.

Christian Reincarnation: The Long Forgotten Doctrine gives an interesting explanation of reincarnation within Christianity for those who are interested in learning about the history of it all.

[greymare]

i think its grossly unfair that we are only on this planet once for approx 85years. considering the age of the planet etc and we are supposed to be the most intelligent beings here (supposed). I like to think that there is reincarnation.as i have said before, i have had a lot of dejavus/glimpses etc which makes me wonder if reincarnation is real. i dont know, or maybe we wont know until its too late to tell anyone . lol. typical. lol

[Impqueen]

For me re-incarnation simply feels right. There is so much to do and learn, reincarnation allows me to accept I can't do everything in this life - there's always the next one! So far from exhausting, I find the idea calming.

[bgruagach]

There's more information about the concept of reincarnation and how it has appeared in various cultures throughout history at Reincarnation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I understand that there is also evidence that reincarnation was a part of at least some ancient Celtic cultures (although the Celts did not leave written records so it's hard to be sure.) Apparently the Roman writer Valerius Maximus commented that the Druids believed so strongly in reincarnation that they permitted debts to be put off so they could be paid in the next life.