Another Buddha??

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Which school of Buddhism endorses this method of forceful discursive homogenization for online discussions?

I could easily picture my Sensei using this method.

The phrase you used would seem to be an oxymoron if you do not consider the interconnectedness of everything, (which is not the same as homogenization.) The pie in the face was in answer to this question:

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

At what point does adapting the orginal teachings to fit in with personal preferences become a largely solipsistic, self-serving attempt to justify the corruption of true doctrine -- an effort that reflects a desire for quick and easy solutions that would be incompatible with real progress on The Path?

Vajradhara posted what would happen if that would be the case:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Buddhas arise in a world system when the Dharma is no longer present.

Which is not anticipated to happen for quite a while. {Bringing it back to the original topic. }

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Originally Posted by Vajradhara: "Buddhas arise in a world system when the Dharma is no longer present. "

Which is not anticipated to happen for quite a while.

Of course there are other views, including: (1) The idea for a Buddha Maitreya was a marketing gimmick that was intended (long after Guatama's death) to make Buddhism competitive with the Abrahamic religions, which all have a Messianic eschatology {Islam’s long-awaited Mahdi, Judaism's Moshiach, and Christianity's returning Jesus}, or (2) the Buddha Maitreya can be seen as a mythic archetype signifying the historical presence/manifestation of the Buddha nature .... not in some distant future, but in this world right now.

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Of course there are other views, including: (1) The idea for a Buddha Maitreya was a marketing gimmick that was intended (long after Guatama's death) to make Buddhism competitive with the Abrahamic religions, which all have a Messianic eschatology {Islam’s long-awaited Mahdi, Judaism's Moshiach, and Christianity's returning Jesus}, or (2) the Buddha Maitreya can be seen as a mythic archetype signifying the historical presence/manifestation of the Buddha nature .... not in some distant future, but in this world right now.

Interesting concept. Let's see what the Buddhists have to say about it.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Bishadi,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Yes, you are reading something you may never had seen before. Today, your knowledge evolved since yesterday. So the collection of mass known as you has learned.

ok, so we are using the term differently. i understand what you mean.

If someone wants to go over any specifics as to how the opinion was derived, then ask

i asked several questions.

metta,

~v

[Bishadi]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

ok, so we are using the term differently. i understand what you mean.

Words are to convey ideas and definitions; does the word 'evolution' offer an acceptably descibed term to define a progression?

i asked several questions.

metta,

~v

Did the post offer the material knowledge to convey; answering each question posted?

(2) the Buddha Maitreya can be seen as a mythic archetype signifying the historical presence/manifestation of the Buddha nature .... not in some distant future, but in this world right now.

Quite literally.

Self sacrafice of personal objectives to contribute to the total.

most all knowledge came from the same type,

See Confucious, Gallileo, Jesus, Newton, Mohammed, Ghandi ..... the list is quite substantial.

Most all of them were contributors and are very much alive in the gifts they left for us all; honor them as they gave by their intent to contribute putting themselves second to personal needs.

signifying the historical presence/manifestation of the Buddha nature ....

As each person alive is capable of exactly the same ability, equally.

Could we each consider this a 'choice' thing?

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Let's see what the Buddhists have to say about it.

"the Buddhists" being...?

s.

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

"the Buddhists" being...?

s.

You know.... -them-

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Bishadi,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Yes, you are reading something you may never had seen before. Today, your knowledge evolved since yesterday. So the collection of mass known as you has learned.

indeed, we are using a very different understanding of the term "evolution".

i would suggest that my knowledge has increased or i've acquired more knowledge rather than the knowledge which i once possessed becoming a different knowledge.... but that could just be a semantic quibble.

To follow a set of literature not compatible with personal experience remains opinion.

i disagree with this statement in it's entirety.. though i could be misunderstanding you.

are you saying that it is a beings option to accept knowledge from a text in which they have no direct experience or that accepting knowledge from a text in which you don't have direct experience means that the knowledge you've accepted is subjective rather than intersubjective?

So defining a reincarnation of a spirit/soul or whatever you wish to call the ‘thing’ moving forward in time, upon physical death…. Is speculative! There is a reality behind it but to describe that reality in actual physical application is much different than most have the knowledge to comprehend. So they rely on opinions rather than do the homework.

i don't think that anything moves forward upon the dissolution of the physical form, such a view is foreign to Buddha Dharma.

i would agree, however, that human experience can only be related through metaphor.

But is mass entangled by energy as momentum changes the passage of time between the entangled mass? Yes.

except for massless particles.

What this means is that if you walked within a room you imposed a physical interaction with that location even when you are no longer there. For example; a women wearing a strong perfume and walks by in a large crowd you may never see the person but the point is you have a faculty capable of noticing the presence; smell.

interestingly enough, in the Rosen-Poldosky Paradox they demonstrated that this effect... entanglement... extends throughout the universe and, even more amazingly, the effects happen instantaneously from one side of the universe to another.

it sounds like what you are suggesting is that human interactors have an influence upon ontological reality...?

A question was asked about ‘another buddha’….. it was an easy one and the best I (this opinion) can offer was written. If someone wants to go over any specifics as to how the opinion was derived, then ask otherwise I am not interested in tearing down material just to retain a position.

so your not interested in having your opinion discussed unless it's supportive?


metta,

~v

[Bishadi]

“”””To follow a set of literature not compatible with personal experience remains opinion “””””

i disagree with this statement in it's entirety.. though i could be misunderstanding you.

are you saying that it is a beings option to accept knowledge from a text in which they have no direct experience or that accepting knowledge from a text in which you don't have direct experience means that the knowledge you've accepted is subjective rather than intersubjective?

Such as if I say ‘the sky is purple’ and you go outside and find it blue.

The dialect, the cultural acceptance or even whether a person is color blind; the point is that to read the complete Vedic literature set and find that what is written does not equate to what is realized as true, then the material is simply an opinion from the writer. Try some words of wisdom

“”” believe nothing no matter where you read it or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense. ‘’’’’

i don't think that anything moves forward upon the dissolution of the physical form,

First you said “I don’t think that’ and then close in suggesting the works of Buddha

such a view is foreign to Buddha Dharma.

So you think nothing moves forward? Then how are you learning Buddha dharma? Men live and walk, do and die; what they do is paramount for the energy that a person contributes (what they impose upon existence) is what lives beyond the grave. Or in a purely physical form; you as you stand; do you look like your parents? Your grandparents? The house your great great great grand pappy built; does it stand? Was it built on good foundation, with good walls, good intent, and still alive based on the gift of energy by the choice of a person?

i would agree, however, that human experience can only be related through metaphor

I disagree. Metaphor are good for usage but directly attributing knowledge and direct experience has much to offer.


“””But is mass entangled by energy as momentum changes the passage of time between the entangled mass? Yes””””

except for massless particles

No such thing as energy itself has is mass affixed in time. The interrelation is not isolated from each other; hence point particles in reality, do not exist. The idea of massless particles are creations of energy interacting within other mass energy. Such to hold a hydrogen atom and take the electron off and give it to a buddy. In real form neither have a single unit but a portion of the other. And the only way for either to hold the other half is if energy is isolating the 2. So mass less than an H is simply a portion of a unit that was changed in time by energy. Electrons and protons are not building blocks; each ‘f’ of energy (spectrum) are them building blocks. And to take a line item ‘f’ and split it (BBC crystal) then now you have a massless particle….

interestingly enough, in the Rosen-Poldosky Paradox they demonstrated that this effect... entanglement... extends throughout the universe and, even more amazingly, the effects happen instantaneously from one side of the universe to another.

Glad to see you know that. Because then you can understand that if all of existence is entangled to ‘the total’ then you can comprehend what ‘gravity’ is. Or even better; recognize the three; all mass, all energy, all time: ONE

Is that trinity of existence; GOD.. as entanglement is a physical property of energy (light) means that all mass is associating by entanglement of light.

it sounds like what you are suggesting is that human interactors have an influence upon ontological reality...?

If you read the word Holocaust; does it have a meaning caused by mankind?

If I say the word Armageddon; does it have a meaning based on a description created a long time ago? Then is it something affecting people today, based on something that hasn’t happened or is simply an event described of the future, from some period in the past?

Such is what faiths have done to mankind.

so your not interested in having your opinion discussed unless it's supportive?

Not asking for support. Simply to be pure in honesty.

If an opinion is being mentioned that suggest the same; if what is being suggested is literally true then both will feel the reality of the words.

No intent to read what has been believed for generations unless there is ‘good’ to be built from the rational of understanding; no interest in faith derived in phenomena, unless there is resolve that reveals the truth.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Bishadi,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

“”””To follow a set of literature not compatible with personal experience remains opinion “””””

Such as if I say ‘the sky is purple’ and you go outside and find it blue.

The dialect, the cultural acceptance or even whether a person is color blind; the point is that to read the complete Vedic literature set and find that what is written does not equate to what is realized as true, then the material is simply an opinion from the writer.

that doesn't make sense at all. the writer, in this context, is writing from his subjective experience. i completely agree, however, that such is not intersubjective and thus cannot form the basis of ones experiential knowledge.

one cannot know what a Durian tastes like by reading about it.

Try some words of wisdom

“”” believe nothing no matter where you read it or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense. ‘’’’’

to whom was this Sutta spoken and for what reason? would you suggest that i in the same situation as the beings to whom this Sutta was spoken? given my understanding of this Sutta i wouldn't think that such an argument would be compelling though i'd be happy to hear your view.

First you said “I don’t think that’ and then close in suggesting the works of Buddha So you think nothing moves forward?

correct. there is nothing which transmigrates.

Then how are you learning Buddha dharma?

through reading, studying and practicing.. the same way that most anybody learns about anything... which has nothing to do with transmigration.

Men live and walk, do and die; what they do is paramount for the energy that a person contributes (what they impose upon existence) is what lives beyond the grave.

i don't believe that energy is transferred in this manner... and, even if it were, it would so completely impersonal as to be completely unrelated to self in any manner.

Or in a purely physical form; you as you stand; do you look like your parents? Your grandparents?

neither. i look like me.

I disagree. Metaphor are good for usage but directly attributing knowledge and direct experience has much to offer.

we actually agree on this point, i think. human language expresses subjective experience through metaphor ala the taste of a Durian.

“””But is mass entangled by energy as momentum changes the passage of time between the entangled mass? Yes””””

No such thing as energy itself has is mass affixed in time. The interrelation is not isolated from each other; hence point particles in reality, do not exist.

indeed.. they are all probability clouds.

Glad to see you know that. Because then you can understand that if all of existence is entangled to ‘the total’ then you can comprehend what ‘gravity’ is. Or even better; recognize the three; all mass, all energy, all time: ONE

sure, that was demonstrated in General Relativity. gravity is accelerated motion. spacetime = mass + energy + times arrow.

Is that trinity of existence; GOD

no, unless you posit a non sentient deity at which point why would it matter?

.. as entanglement is a physical property of energy (light) means that all mass is associating by entanglement of light.

not according to the experiments. the entanglement happens faster than light can travel; it is a quantum entanglement. though, of course, mass and energy are in fact the same thing.

If you read the word Holocaust; does it have a meaning caused by mankind?

all human words have a meaning caused by mankind.. its the very definition of the term, i'd say.

Not asking for support. Simply to be pure in honesty.

i'm not sure what that means though i'm of the impression that the respondents on this forum are being as honest when they respond to a post.

metta,

~v

[Bishadi]

The first comment ……………………….

So defining a reincarnation of a spirit/soul or whatever you wish to call the ‘thing’ moving forward in time, upon physical death…. Is speculative! There is a reality behind it but to describe that reality in actual physical application is much different than most have the knowledge to comprehend. So they rely on opinions rather than do the homework………..

Then you stated

i don't think that anything moves forward upon the dissolution of the physical form, such a view is foreign to Buddha Dharma.

Then in response

First you said “I don’t think that’ and then close in suggesting the works of Buddha So you think nothing moves forward?

The your response


correct. there is nothing which transmigrates.

Then

Then how are you learning Buddha dharma?

Your response

through reading, studying and practicing.. the same way that most anybody learns about anything... which has nothing to do with transmigration

Knowledge continues; life continues; the ‘wake’ of our (time of experiencing/choice), continues.

What we do continues…

But transmigration is relating to reincarnations…. And they don’t exist in the form of dying and bringing your memories with you and then be born into another child; that is all beliefs, not reality.

The comment …………….Men live and walk, do and die; what they do is paramount for the energy that a person contributes (what they impose upon existence) is what lives beyond the grave

and you said

i don't believe that energy is transferred in this manner... and, even if it were, it would so completely impersonal as to be completely unrelated to self in any manner

Then what is dharma? What is poetry, art? Why would anyone read a book?

the comment ……….Or in a purely physical form; you as you stand; do you look like your parents? Your grandparents?

Your reply …

neither. i look like me

no matter how you like it; fact is; your parents contributed a seed (sperm/egg) to combine and make the new shade that is you…. you represent their whole lineage since the beginning of time and if you want to get technical; they all are alive, in you are you stand. But people want to think life is this body we experience with……

[Bishadi]

No such thing as energy itself has is mass affixed in time. The interrelation is not isolated from each other; hence point particles in reality, do not exist.

Your comment

indeed.. they are all probability clouds.

Oooops! That is old school…. Probability clouds are based in errors of current paradigm……. Are you up to speed to debate at this level or are you simply sharing what is currently accepted?

sure, that was demonstrated in General Relativity. gravity is accelerated motion. spacetime = mass + energy + times arrow.

GR is incorrect; no speed for light….t<0….

Newton shares the concept of gravity but did not share what gravity was; what you are sharing is the law of motion

Gravity is entangled energy between structures (see casimir/van der waals)

no, unless you posit a non sentient deity at which point why would it matter?

We are the ‘sentient’ being of existence. Consciousness it where mass experiences existence. God is this existence of all; we existence within all.

Otherwise the idea of god on some thrown simply isolates the conscious from experiencing God in all things.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Bishadi,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Bishadi

Knowledge continues; life continues; the ‘wake’ of our (time of experiencing/choice), continues.

What we do continues…

But transmigration is relating to reincarnations…. And they don’t exist in the form of dying and bringing your memories with you and then be born into another child; that is all beliefs, not reality.

so.. we agree.. nothing transmigrates after the dissolution of the physical form.

Then what is dharma? What is poetry, art? Why would anyone read a book?

i'm unclear how these terms are remotely related to energy transference in any manner, perhaps you can elaborate?

dharma–derived from the Sanskrit root dhr meaning to hold up, to carry, to bear, to sustain. The word dharma refers to that which upholds or sustains the universe. Human society, for example, is sustained and upheld by the dharma performed by its members. For example, parents protecting and maintaining children, children being obedient to parents, the king protecting the citizens, are acts of dharma that uphold and sustain society. In this context dharma has the meaning of duty. Dharma also employs the meaning of law, religion, virtue, and ethics. These things uphold and sustain the proper functioning of human society. In philosophy dharma refers to the defining quality of an object. For instance, liquidity is one of the essential dharmas of water; coldness is a dharma of ice. In this case we can think that the existence of an object is sustained or defined by its essential attributes, dharmas.

poetry and art are rather subjective in that what one may consider it another may not. generically speaking, they are forms of artistic expression.

i suspect there are as many reasons for reading a book as their are books to read.

no matter how you like it; fact is; your parents contributed a seed (sperm/egg) to combine and make the new shade that is you…. you represent their whole lineage since the beginning of time and if you want to get technical; they all are alive, in you are you stand. But people want to think life is this body we experience with……

i agree that sperm and ovum combined to make this physical form.. but that's not what you asked me.. you asked me who i look like, my parents or grandparents and the answer to that is that i look like neither of them, i look like me (that is to say this physical form).

the discussion of particular aspects of science would be more suited for the science forum rather than the Buddhist forum. that said, i would certainly encourage you to submit your work to a peer reviewed scientific organization for recognition.

no, unless you posit a non sentient deity at which point why would it matter?

We are the ‘sentient’ being of existence. Consciousness it where mass experiences existence. God is this existence of all; we existence within all.

Otherwise the idea of god on some thrown simply isolates the conscious from experiencing God in all things.

there are significantly more sentient beings, even on this planet, than humans. it seems a terrible anthropomorphism to imput any sentient characteristics unto spacetime let alone those of humans.

since it is pretty clear that i don't hold a belief in a creator deity i don't make the same assumptions regarding these phenomena as it seems that you have done. i don't see god in spacetime, indeed, the idea is nonsensical to me.

metta,

~v

[Bishadi]

i'm unclear how these terms are remotely related to energy transference in any manner, perhaps you can elaborate?

If I go outside, dig a hole and plant a tree; Is there energy involved? Did I contribute my energy to begin a chain of events that may cause a life to live beyond the term of my life?

Same with words, if I put into print….. ‘the martians are attacking’ on the front page of the New York Times; will energy be invoked to any who read the words?

Well dharma is simply learned rules based on a faith placed into writing. What was believed way back when is conveyed and that energy continues as if alive all by itself

the discussion of particular aspects of science would be more suited for the science forum rather than the Buddhist forum. that said, i would certainly encourage you to submit your work to a peer reviewed scientific organization for recognition.

Not interested in recognition. Only that the truth lives. Them to know, will do as they are to by choice, not because others or the group approves.

since it is pretty clear that i don't hold a belief in a creator deity i don't make the same assumptions regarding these phenomena as it seems that you have done. i don't see god in spacetime, indeed, the idea is nonsensical to me

me no spacetime creator either…..

nothing sentient other than a human being (conscious) unless life as scientifically defined, itself is considered sentient….

The only ‘other’ dimensions are them slots in time, but there is no other place…

And EPR had nothing to do with Quantum entanglement. Go read the 1935 publication and not Wiki…. The idea is about spin and location/momentum… can’t observe the properties and location at the same time….. which is not a part of splitting a photon by a BBC …..

The error in today’s physics is that most really do not comprehend what the math means, nor what the scientist are conveying. Many simply read the interpretations like any religious book, and believe what is represented without doing the actual homework.

That is how honesty and integrity ruin the truth!

[Bishadi]

that last line needs to be observered in clear form....

For someone to believe an idea without doing the homework, can represent what they know honestly but does not mean the integrity to understand the work was done honestly.

Such is how the sciences and religions clash.

Neither perform with integrity to be honest with what is understood.