And the Whole Earth Was of One Language

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Alexa!

Wow, what a post!

Originally Posted by alexa

I finally understand your interest in morality ! I had no chance, since the beginning to convince you about the earth based religions, had I ?

Well, innate morality (conscience) seems to me related, but I hadn't thought to go in that direction when I wrote my paper. So it is reasonable to say that when I started the other thread, it was on the one hand a separate investigation, and on the other a means of validating (or not) what is included here.

There is always the possibility I have been mistaken, that is why I chose to discuss these issues openly, to bring in other opinions and insights. In that, you have been a great sport! Thanks

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, aquaris! and welcome to CR!

Originally Posted by aquaris

Like they say the earth was destroyed and recreated ....many times....

at least once in the biblical/muslims/jews/ tradtion with reference to Noah...and as I read somewhere else....seven according to Inca..? Maya..? sources....the answer
I think lay somwhere there.....

It seems I remember reading something to this effect in a Mayan or Aztec history, that the earth was laid waste 7 times. And at least one biblical scholar I refer to often, states that in Genesis (1:1?) that the world was not formed void and waste, but that it became void and waste. An interesting view, but one I am not prepared to discuss with any depth.

Thanks for participating!

[aquaris]

thank you juantoo3 ....

One more theme which is persistent in nearly all these myths/legends/stories is that
The God or higher being destroyed the world because the people were wicked ,cruel, and disobeying to the God So as a punishment the flood was sent...in some instances
it was first Fire then earth quake and then Flood...

The point is ....It too points to a similiar ... single begining.. ...that is there was
one civilization on the earth ....and if there was One civilization then it may have just One language. and its only after the Flood or destruction and after which
every one was scatered.... this Myth/legend/ story evolved differently in the different survivors .

[alexa]

After checking the link for the floods, it really seems that was only one, as the stories are very similar. The most accurate one is from the Bilble. So, finally different survivors could have different stories, but close enough for the same event.

Something about Turkish origin bothers me. I think prof. Albright wants us to believe it. I have to check !

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Alexa and Aquaris!

I haven't a lot of time, but a couple of directions perhaps worth looking into:

Bob Ballard, the oceanic explorer famed for finding the Titanic, apparently made a dive in the Black Sea and found the ruins of a city a couple of years ago. The media made a big hype for a moment and then hushed because it wasn't quite what they thought, but it is intriguing just the same. I watched a program about it last week, on NOVA I think.

Another direction to look, if you have time and energy, would be to find Glen Morton's personal website and the information he catalogues there. It has moved from the address I have, but I have found the new site recently (should have had sense enough to save the new address!). I haven't been through all of his material, but he has done quite a bit of research both on the physical aspects of a worldwide deluge (according to him, it is not possible) and on prehistoric man such as Neandertal and Cro-Magnon, including a critique of the find of a hybrid Neandertal/Cro-Magnon child skeleton that was found. Some really great stuff! And he still considers himself a Christian (although some I know might take issue with such a claim...).

Anyway, those are the directions I had thought to look before I got caught up in the needs of life at this moment. It is not likely to ease up until almost Christmas. But I try to take a minute and look in from time to time from school and work, but those computers are not registered to this site, so I can't post if I wanted to. I don't think it would be prudent anyway.

I look forward to any more research you do! I think you can see I find this subject absolutely fascinating!

[alexa]

Hello Juan,

I hope your first week at the hospital wasn't too difficult !

Sorry, I do not have Nova. I did a quick research on the net for Bob Ballard and I found an article on National Geographic. I'll post as it is for future conversation, if necessary.

I didn't have the time for Morton yet. I have to finish my own research about the evolution of the languages in my previous posts.

So here you have Bob Ballard and his discoveries at the Black Sea :

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/flood.html

Almost every culture on Earth includes an ancient flood story. Details vary, but the basic plot is the same: Deluge kills all but a lucky few.
• The story most familiar to many people is the biblical account of Noah and his ark. Genesis tells how “God saw that the wickedness of man was great” and decided to destroy all of creation. Only Noah, “who found grace in the eyes of the Lord,” his family, and the animals aboard the ark survived to repopulate the planet.

• Older than Genesis is the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh, a king who embarked on a journey to find the secret of immortality. Along the way, he met Utnapishtim, survivor of a great flood sent by the gods. Warned by Enki, the water god, Utnapishtim built a boat and saved his family and friends, along with artisans, animals, and precious metals.

• Ancient Greeks and Romans grew up with the story of Deucalion and Pyhrra, who saved their children and a collection of animals by boarding a vessel shaped like a giant box.

• Irish legends talk about Queen Cesair and her court, who sailed for seven years to avoid drowning when the oceans overwhelmed Ireland.

• European explorers in the Americas were startled by Indian legends that sounded similar to the story of Noah. Some Spanish priests feared the devil had planted such stories in the Indians’ minds to confuse them.

Columbia University geologists William Ryan and Walter Pitman wondered what could explain the preponderance of flood legends. Their theory: As the Ice Age ended and glaciers melted, a wall of seawater surged from the Mediterranean into the Black Sea.
• During the Ice Age, Ryan and Pitman argue, the Black Sea was an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland.

• About 12,000 years ago, toward the end of the Ice Age, Earth began growing warmer. Vast sheets of ice that sprawled over the Northern Hemisphere began to melt. Oceans and seas grew deeper as a result.

• About 7,000 years ago the Mediterranean Sea swelled. Seawater pushed northward, slicing through what is now Turkey.

• Funneled through the narrow Bosporus, the water hit the Black Sea with 200 times the force of Niagara Falls. Each day the Black Sea rose about six inches (15 centimeters), and coastal farms were flooded.

• Seared into the memories of terrified survivors, the tale of the flood was passed down through the generations and eventually became the Noah story.

Maritime explorer Bob Ballard is combing the floor of the Black Sea in search of the remains of ancient dwellings, which would buttress a new theory that a cataclysmic flood struck the region some 7,000 years ago—swelling the sea and eventually becoming the basis of the Noah story.
• If the thesis is correct, signs of human habitation should lie beneath the Black Sea. A 1998 expedition, says Ballard, reported “a series of features that appear to be man-made structures.”

• Ballard’s 1999 expedition revealed an ancient shoreline. Also found were shells from freshwater and saltwater mollusk species. Their radiocarbon dates support the theory of a freshwater lake inundated by the Black Sea some 7,000 years ago.

• “Now we’ve got to take it to the next level,” says Ballard. Ballard and his team will use sonar and remotely operated vehicles to search for evidence of human inhabitation, including buildings, pottery, and ships.

• Nationalgeographic.com producer Sean Markey is searching along with Ballard. Join him on the Black Sea via dispatches on the expedition's progress

Dispatch 11: Ancient Shipwrecks - September 12, 2000

[Note: Nationalgeographic.com does not research or copyedit dispatches.]

On Sunday, the long-awaited replacement sonar for Argus arrived. Total installation time? “Oh, about 10 minutes. Maybe five,” ROV engineer Craig Elder tells me.

The team wastes little time putting it to work. Following a scheduled personnel transfer at Sinop, the Northern Horizon transits back to the expedition search site, specifically to an area about 8-10 miles [13-16 kilometers] off the coast. The team dives on it’s selected target, deploying the remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) Argus and Little Hercules. The vehicles now operate in tandem for the second time and are performing splendidly, 100 meters [328 feet] below the surface.

As Little Hercules skims above the sea floor, video cameras mounted on Argus, traveling above, display a birds-eye view of the ROV. The smaller Little Hercules, trailing its fiber-optic tether like a leash, looks like a headlight-equipped computer mouse navigating a foggy green sea floor.

At 12:57 a.m. the team spots the tell-tale signs of amphorae-carrying ship wreck. Some 350 clay amphorae—the tin cans and glass bottles of antiquity—lie scattered on the sea floor like an upturned box of Legos. The shipping vessels’ distinct, tapering shape (like carrots with round mouths and handles) inform the archaeologists that the ship originated in the nearby ancient trading center of Sinop. (“We’ve got the kilns [on land]” observes Dr. Fredrik Hiebert.)

Nautical archaeologist Cheryl Ward, who has joined the expedition team for four days, makes a preliminary estimate. The wreck is a 4th century, late Roman ship roughly dating to 350 A.D.

The watch is ecstatic. In the control room, Ballard congratulates his crew. “Alright. Not bad,” he says. “A little too recent. 400 [sic] A.D.”

The team logs and videotapes the site, then moves on to investigate other targets. (The wreck will be more closely investigated at a later time.)

Two-and-a-half hours later, the team finds yet another wreck. This ship appears smaller than the first, but—surprisingly—a number of wooden timbers from the hull remain. [The team has not yet plumbed the wood-preserving anoxic depths.] Ward, the nautical archaeologist, makes a preliminary estimate that the wreck is a Byzantine amphorae-carrying ship dating sometime around 550 A.D.

The shipwreck finds are significant. [“They have the potential to educate us a great deal,” Ward tells me later.]

The archaeologists are thrilled. Ballard doesn’t quite share their enthusiasm. “Rats,” he says. “It was supposed to be a house.”

[alexa]

Juan,

I've got some links for you :
Home page Morton :http://home.entouch.net/dmd/dmd.htm
Glenn Morton's Personal Stories of the Creation/Evolution Struggle :http://home.entouch.net/dmd/person.htm
Articles on Noah's Flood : http://home.entouch.net/dmd/fld.htm
The Geologic Column and Its Implications to the Flood :

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/geologiccolumn.htm

It seems John Woodmorappe doesn't like him very much since the review of his book : Noah's ark : a feasibility study.

I'll let you comment about him, whenever you have some spare time.

As you could see in my previous post, Bob Ballard's research is a dead end.

Best regards,

Alexa

[aquaris]

Seems the emphasis of research is on finding the location where Noah could have been.

Other wise .....If we have a simple beggining like One Father One Mother of all mankind ( Adam and Eve) then its logical to think...that in the beggining there
must be One language ....as there would be Just One origin . Its only afterward..
when the humanity got disperesed for whatever the reason ( Deluge , Flood, internatal strife , Wars, etc.etc..... ) Only then with passage of time...did different
languages emerged.

[alexa]

If we accept the idea of only one language, it's like we accept the world map like Homer or Anaximenes. If we take Hacataeus's map, we can suppose there was at leat one language, if not two or three.

I prepared a document of all the word's map I could find to see the location of humans habitates. There is no American continent in it. It's like all our classics didn't know about it !

Anyway, take a look at the maps and tell me if you still believe it was only one language. We have the advantage to have a global look of the Earth.

I appology, but I have to split the original document, as it seems it has 1.14 KB.

[alexa]

Next maps. I have from Strabo 18 A.D, Pomponius Mela 40 AD, Petrus Bertius 1628, Dionysius 124 A.D., but they take too much place, so I cannot add them.

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Alexa,

Where did you get your maps, including the ones that you couldn't include? I would like to look at them all at my leisure.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[alexa]

Hi Phyllis,

Here you have the link :

http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/Ancient%20Web%20Pages/AncientL.html

Choose the map you are interested in and click on the correspondant slide.
What do you think about this thread ? I know you are studying languages, so maybe you can give me a hint.

Regards,

Alexa

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Alexa and all!

Just a quick note to let you know you are not forgotten!

Thank you so much for the great information so far. I am thinking the material you provided about Bob Ballard is correct, it must have been Nat'l Geographic, not Nova. But I do seem to recall hsi team finding cut stones at right angles, implying walls, in addition to the ancient shipwrecks. I was not aware the water in the Black sea is poisonous below a certain depth until that program.

I don't have anything to add at this time, I have been consumed with work and school. Midterms in a couple of days and lots of homework besides. But I will return at some point and contribute as I can. Thanks again, and best of wishes!

[alexa]

Hi Juan,

Glad to see you are all right.

Don't worry. I know you are very busy, so I took the slow mode in-here. I didn't post anything else, as my research is too advanced and it seems I could't pass over the first step of the evolution of languages. I have promised you no time limit and I usually keep up my promises.

The challenge is on as long you are interested in.

Actually, I'll be out of here for a few weeks in December. I can finally take my vacation and I've promised to my parents, I'll be with them for Christmas.

I wish you good luck with your finals. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you !

Best regards,

Alexa

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Alexa!

My apologies for the long delay in responding. I have found a brief moment to catch my breath. Finals next week, and I'm done with my Bachelor's! YAY!

I hope you have an enjoyable holiday season, and a safe trip. I hope to have time to put together a proper response in a couple of weeks. Until then, kind regards and best of wishes.