An idea

[Postmaster]

Just wondering if Baha'is regard this as a sound philosophy towards God.

It's kind of based on the same principles in homeopathy. In homeopathy, a substance is more potent when it has been purified to the point where no trace of that substance is left, what is left is a finger print of that substance that was once there and that claim homeopathists can cure the body of illness, triggering the body’s natural immune by causing similar symptoms in the body. So what I was thinking is, maybe God is so invisible to us because he is so potent, his love, his will and his presence is so great, that all we can see is his finger prints. That invisibility and distance some claim there is actually because of how close he is to us and not distant.

Hippocrates was the first to be aware of these principles, which could be universal and I think apply nicely to monotheistic thinking.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Just wondering if Baha'is regard this as a sound philosophy towards God.

It's kind of based on the same principles in homeopathy. In homeopathy, a substance is more potent when it has been purified to the point where no trace of that substance is left, what is left is a finger print of that substance that was once there and that claim homeopathists can cure the body of illness, triggering the body’s natural immune by causing similar symptoms in the body. So what I was thinking is, maybe God is so invisible to us because he is so potent, his love, his will and his presence is so great, that all we can see is his finger prints. That invisibility and distance some claim there is actually because of how close he is to us and not distant.

Hippocrates was the first to be aware of these principles, which could be universal and I think apply nicely to monotheistic thinking.

Hi Postmaster!

Thanks for the interesting post...

According to the Baha'i Writings God is Unknowable and as much as we strive by ourselves to discover or define God it ends in failure...all that we have are just our own speculations... But God sends Prophets and Messengers or as we Baha'is call Them Manifestations of God. It is through these Manifestations that we can know God or more specifically as much as we can know God. The Manifestations perfectly reflect the attributes of God to mankind so there is more than a "finger print".

As much as God is Unknowable He is also Immanent or near us as well which is maybe the paradox you are referring to...

Surely God is at all times with His creatures, in all, through all, and over all; "Closer is He than breathing, nearer than hands and feet." Yes, but men cannot see or hear God immanent and transcendent, cannot realize His Presence, until He reveals Himself through a visible form and talks to them in human language. For the revelation of His higher attributes, God has always made use of a human instrument. Each of the Prophets was a mediator through whom God visited and spoke to His people.

- from "Baha'u'llah and the New Era"

- Art

[Postmaster]

Everyone has there own perception of God. The Jewish community has made it so far without accepting Jesus, Mohammad or Bahá'u'lláh. Why should we wait for a prophet to verify how we view God. People are sceptical about God because there is no evidence of his existence. If one understands the law of Minimum or Arndt Schultz Law it could be quite helpful. Or could wait till the next charasmatic megalomanic comes along.

[BruceDLimber]

Hi again, Postmaster!

I tend to be a bit leery of homeopathy because while it may indeed have some good ideas, it also appears to incorporate a good deal of superstition (dilutions of supposed medications billions-to-one with water are a good example). So I tend to be much more into allopathy (conventional medicine).

Still, there's no telling what new discoveries will be made, and what refinements and improvements to both may occur.

So in general as to science and religion, in the Baha'i view (as you may well know) the two are NOT in contradiction, but rather dovetail very nicely!

Science may be said to explain the "how" of things, whereas religion explains "Who" and "why." They thus address different, largely non-overlapping domains, but come together nicely to form a complete whole!

The quickest way to get into trouble is to use either one without the other!: Science without religion is gross materialism (bigger and better nukes); religion without science is superstition (witch-burning).

And the Baha'i scriptures also say (sorry: I don't have the citation handy) that if a religious doctrine disagrees with established science, then that doctrine is simply wrong.

There is also this marvelous quote from 'Abdu'l-Baha in Some Answered Questions:

“[E]ven in Europe it is admitted that religion is the opponent of science, and that science is the destroyer of the foundations of religion. While the religion of God is the promoter of truth, the founder of science and knowledge, it is full of goodwill for learned men; it is the civilizer of mankind, the discoverer of the secrets of nature, and the enlightener of the horizons of the world. Consequently, how can it be said to oppose knowledge? God forbid! Nay, for God, knowledge is the most glorious gift of man and the most noble of human perfections. To oppose knowledge is ignorant, and he who detests knowledge and science is not a man, but rather an animal without intelligence. For knowledge is light, life, felicity, perfection, beauty and the means of approaching the Threshold of Unity. It is the honor and glory of the world of humanity, and the greatest bounty of God. Knowledge is identical with guidance, and ignorance is real error.

“Happy are those who spend their days in gaining knowledge, in discovering the secrets of nature, and in penetrating the subtleties of pure truth! Woe to those who are contented with ignorance, whose hearts are gladdened by thoughtless imitation, who have fallen into the lowest depths of ignorance and foolishness, and who have wasted their lives!”
—(page 137)

Best, :-)

Bruce

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Everyone has there own perception of God. The Jewish community has made it so far without accepting Jesus, Mohammad or Bahá'u'lláh. Why should we wait for a prophet to verify how we view God. People are sceptical about God because there is no evidence of his existence. If one understands the law of Minimum or Arndt Schultz Law it could be quite helpful. Or could wait till the next charasmatic megalomanic comes along.

I certainly can't argue against your Law of the Minimum analogy. It works for me, but I have no problem finding evidence of God. You can trace cause and effect of every bit of matter and energy back to the moment it came into existence, but nothing that is part of that creation can perceive the point of initiation, the Primal Cause.

That merely underlines, emboldens, highlights and broadcasts the fact of the existence of God.

Of course Judaism has survived, it is founded in the recognition of a Manifestation of God.

Regards,
Scott

[Postmaster]

You can trace cause and effect of every bit of matter and energy back to the moment it came into existence, but nothing that is part of that creation can perceive the point of initiation, the Primal Cause.

That merely underlines, emboldens, highlights and broadcasts the fact of the existence of God.

It could hight anything, even dual forces or multiple Gods. The name of God has been chanted by civilisation for thousands of years by mystics that have proven themselves to people. When them mystics are gone only there words and scriptures remain they only leave part of a universal message. I think the law of minium can solidify things. As far as homeopathy being a superstitious and theoretical system, there has been various evidence popping up in science to validate homeopathy and still till this day hasn't been disproved. Vacinations are based on like prevents like.


Gods love, Gods will and Gods presence is so strong and powerful that we can only view a very minumal amount of him if not at all.

13 things that do not make sense - space - 19 March 2005 - New Scientist Space

4 Belfast homeopathy results

MADELEINE Ennis, a pharmacologist at Queen's University, Belfast, was the scourge of homeopathy. She railed against its claims that a chemical remedy could be diluted to the point where a sample was unlikely to contain a single molecule of anything but water, and yet still have a healing effect. Until, that is, she set out to prove once and for all that homeopathy was bunkum.
In her most recent paper, Ennis describes how her team looked at the effects of ultra-dilute solutions of histamine on human white blood cells involved in inflammation. These "basophils" release histamine when the cells are under attack. Once released, the histamine stops them releasing any more. The study, replicated in four different labs, found that homeopathic solutions - so dilute that they probably didn't contain a single histamine molecule - worked just like histamine. Ennis might not be happy with the homeopaths' claims, but she admits that an effect cannot be ruled out.
So how could it happen? Homeopaths prepare their remedies by dissolving things like charcoal, deadly nightshade or spider venom in ethanol, and then diluting this "mother tincture" in water again and again. No matter what the level of dilution, homeopaths claim, the original remedy leaves some kind of imprint on the water molecules. Thus, however dilute the solution becomes, it is still imbued with the properties of the remedy.
You can understand why Ennis remains sceptical. And it remains true that no homeopathic remedy has ever been shown to work in a large randomised placebo-controlled clinical trial. But the Belfast study (Inflammation Research, vol 53, p 181) suggests that something is going on. "We are," Ennis says in her paper, "unable to explain our findings and are reporting them to encourage others to investigate this phenomenon." If the results turn out to be real, she says, the implications are profound: we may have to rewrite physics and chemistry.

[arthra]

Postmaster,

There's no official Baha'i position on homeopathy... There's actually quite a lot in the Bhaa'i Writings on health that you can review at

http://bahai-library.com/index.php5?...triti on.html

As to proof of God's existence.. Ithink most Baha'is are convinced of teh existence of God and the spiritual worlds. We also believe that God has intervened in history in various ways... While we don't place a lot of emphasis on miracles as proofs, we don't necessarily deny they cannot occur.

- Art

[Postmaster]

I think one day God will be more clear to us then he is today, it's just a matter of time, maybe were not ready to know yet.

An example I have is science grew out of atheism or an unbias towards God. Yet science is the foundation for the marvels of the modern world promised to us in Christianity. I think it's quite an important principle to be aware of the law of minium in relation to the nature of God. It came to me with the death of my grandfather.

[arthra]

Postmaster,

I'm glad that you derievd some spiritual insight from the passing of your Grandfather.

To me God is very apparent today ..maybe more so than in ages past:

"This is the Day in which the Ocean of knowledge hath lifted up its Voice and hath brought forth its pearls. Would that ye knew it!" - Baha'u'llah

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I think one day God will be more clear to us then he is today, it's just a matter of time, maybe were not ready to know yet.

An example I have is science grew out of atheism or an unbias towards God. Yet science is the foundation for the marvels of the modern world promised to us in Christianity. I think it's quite an important principle to be aware of the law of minium in relation to the nature of God. It came to me with the death of my grandfather.

Postmaster,

I think sometimes I watch you use your own feelings as a sample of the rest of humanity. It is a trap that many of us fall into, particularly when we begin a sentence with "I believe, I think or I feel...". We have a tendency to give that thought more importance simply because we took ownership of it. As the quest you are on unfolds, God will become clearer to you. As you are able to accept God and the role He has chosen for us (In our short obligatory prayer it says, "I bear witness, O my God, that Thou has created me to know Thee and to worship Thee..."), the simplicity of God and his wishes will come forth.

Even though we are told God is Unknowable, since I became a Baha'i, God became more defined to me. Maybe it's because I am able to define God with His wishes of us, or I can see the tracks He has left (the Manifestations), or the changing force of His words (The Principles that Baha'u'llah has given the world and the result of these words.), but, regardless what the reason is, to the Baha'is I know, God is, as Art said, "apparent".

We are told that at the time of death, we become aware of all the Truths of God. It could be that you are being guided by your Grandfather at this moment towards the "Unknowable" God, so that you will know Him.

warmly,

Mick

[Postmaster]

Yeah it may be with the passing of my grandfather has given me more awareness of God.

The Old Testament shows how the underdogs succeeded in over coming great obstacles and then you have all of religions of the world are made by the heretics. Gives me a greater awareness for respect towards all things.

[Postmaster]

mistake. please delete