Allowing child molesters in church?

[wil]

The more I contemplate this the more I think churches need to welcome child molesters with open arms...and do their best to assist in their recoveries...it seems most appropriate.

Truly following spiritual principles isn't always easy.

[Miss Amy]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Why hold on to the obvious? You too are capable of killing, stealing, decieving.... Child molesting.... Whatever.... Name it you are capable of it.... Specially killing. But, why hold on to that? Why look at the bad parts of a human... Try and look at their good points. Heck the majority of you are god lovers... But I still look past that to your good points...... (EDIT: ponders how many will see the light side of that lol....)

Since you were quoting me... I feel like I should at least address your comment, however in further readings I figure that I wouldn't say anything better than Muslimwoman so why beat a dead horse, eh?

However... I am not a "god lover" however I respect that many here, are in his many forms, and I think that you were right to question whether or not anyone would see the light side of that comment...

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

The more I contemplate this the more I think churches need to welcome child molesters with open arms...and do their best to assist in their recoveries...it seems most appropriate.

Truly following spiritual principles isn't always easy.

This is my dilemma Wil, following spiritual principles is not easy and I am only human. I feel it would quite easy to comment on what other people should do in this situation but if it was my church and my children would I feel the same way?

One of my problems is that statistics on these people show that more often than not, by the time they are caught it is highly unlikely to be their first instance, so are they just 'repenting' because they got caught? If it has taken years to create such a monster then why would they decide to change overnight?

Sorry I am usually quite decisive about my views but this one has me baffled, What would I do it was my church, my children?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Miss Amy

Since you were quoting me... I feel like I should at least address your comment, however in further readings I figure that I wouldn't say anything better than Muslimwoman so why beat a dead horse, eh?

Sorry if I stole your spot Amy, I just couldn't read that without commenting on it.

Salaam

[Miss Amy]

No, not at all MW. I loved your insight and felt that faithful Servant and I were going round and round. I just felt that even though I could not have said it better myself I should at least back you up with an "Aye! Aye!"

[LeoSalinas22]

[quote=Muslimwoman;104506]

As I posted before, child molesters here tend to just disappear - body and all, often happens to rapists too. Personally they get my vote - I'll hold the flashlight for them.

geez, muslimwoman, i don't know wether to laugh my ass off because of disbelief or crap my pants! women are insane, man!

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

geez, muslimwoman, i don't know wether to laugh my ass off because of disbelief or crap my pants! women are insane, man!

Hey I think it is men that are insane, they tend to be the rapists and child molesters (although not exclusively).

Now tell me, if you were one of these wierdos and lived in Egypt would you do it there? Bet you say no. The same as you wouldn't steal in Saudi and wouldn't smuggle drugs in Thailand - am I right?

[Miss Amy]

MW

Everything you say makes so much sense to me! If the consequences are bad enough then people won't do the horrible things. Makes a lot of sense to me. Here it seems a child is molested and the person who did it serves no time at all in a cushy little country club jail cell.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Miss Amy

MW

Everything you say makes so much sense to me! If the consequences are bad enough then people won't do the horrible things. Makes a lot of sense to me. Here it seems a child is molested and the person who did it serves no time at all in a cushy little country club jail cell.

Hi Amy

Islam does have some horrific punishments for crimes but just look at the statistics. The scholars insist the punishment for adultery is stoning to death, guess how many people I have met over here that would have an affair. Yes men here can have 4 wives but I have only met a couple that have even 2 out of thousands I have met and I have certainly not even heard of anyone having an affair. Women ensure they are not in a position to be accused of anything untoward. Yes in some places it does go too far, just look at Saudi.

It does beg the question as to whether morals should be governed by law but quite frankly if it keeps my husband and I in the same bed and stops our children from being hurt then I am all for it. It does however, worry me that this system can and is in some places abused and if the law is your moral judge then where does it end? So perhaps if I lived in Saudi I would not be such a supporter?

However I do believe the west has gone way too far. Send criminals on holiday, give them playstations in their cells and of course these child molesters are 'in need of help'. Sorry but when I watched the UK news over the last week (about the little British girl that was snatched from her room) and the UK police said they were looking at ALL the child molesters that travelled to Portugal in the month before the incident, I had to do a double take. What on earth do they mean ALL of them and why are these people allowed to travel freely, what right do they have to a passport and why should other countries have to put up with these monsters?

[Sunny C.]

Originally Posted by MW

It does beg the question as to whether morals should be governed by law but quite frankly if it keeps my husband and I in the same bed and stops our children from being hurt then I am all for it. It does however, worry me that this system can and is in some places abused and if the law is your moral judge then where does it end? So perhaps if I lived in Saudi I would not be such a supporter?

I understand what you're saying, but I want to ask you what activities, in your opinion, merit capital punishment? Adultery? Child molestation? Treason? Manslaughter? Theft? Gross negligence that leads to death? Blasphemy?

The first, adultery, begs the question of whether a person actually owns his or her own body. What's your point of view on that?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

I understand what you're saying, but I want to ask you what activities, in your opinion, merit capital punishment? Adultery? Child molestation? Treason? Manslaughter? Theft? Gross negligence that leads to death? Blasphemy?

The first, adultery, begs the question of whether a person actually owns his or her own body. What's your point of view on that?

Hi Sunny

Just my personal ramblings, of course but here goes.

Yes I believe I own my own body and my mind is there to make moral judgements. Quite honestly I don't believe in capital punishment for adultery (I think some fellow Muslims on this site are going to try to stone me to death for saying that ). In Islam adultery is the second biggest sin and it must therefore hold a severe punishment as a deterant but I am a supporter of following the Quran, not man made laws, so the punishment would be 100 lashes for both man and woman if the crime is adultery and 100 lashes and 1 years exile for unmarried people who fornicate.

Where would I draw the line? Murder, rape and child molestation should merit capital punishment where the case is proven beyond any reasonable doubt.

I am in between on treason, it would depend wether the persons actions were intended to kill.

Manslaughter? No, it is possible to commit manslaughter with no aggresive intention. Theft? No, to me that does not warrant capital punishment. Gross negligence that leads to death? Again No, you would have to show that the intention was there to kill or that the person was aware that their negligence would kill. Blasphemy? NO, there must be no compulsion in religion.

[Sunny C.]

Yes I believe I own my own body and my mind is there to make moral judgements. Quite honestly I don't believe in capital punishment for adultery (I think some fellow Muslims on this site are going to try to stone me to death for saying that ). In Islam adultery is the second biggest sin and it must therefore hold a severe punishment as a deterant but I am a supporter of following the Quran, not man made laws, so the punishment would be 100 lashes for both man and woman if the crime is adultery and 100 lashes and 1 years exile for unmarried people who fornicate.

Really? Really, really? You think that people who have sex outside of the confines of marriage deserved to be lashed? That seems pretty barbaric to me. How does one have ownership of their body in that case? It would seem that the group. or the state, or the religion owns one's body and what one may do with it with other consenting adults. This is a good thing?

Chris

[Sunny C.]

I'll tell you, I deserve a lot of lashes! And if I had done at eighteen what I did at sixteen and seventeen I'd be considered a child molester. All those underage girls in the backseat of my old man's Buick. Whooo! I wouldn't have anything left flay.

My wife of twenty years is a home town girl. I've stood around and drank a beer at family functions with guys who I know did my wife when she was younger. BFD. We're all friends and it doesn't bother any of us a whit. And it hasn't hurt us or society a bit. So, we should all be whipped and or killed for that?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Miss Amy

Since you were quoting me... I feel like I should at least address your comment, however in further readings I figure that I wouldn't say anything better than Muslimwoman so why beat a dead horse, eh?

However... I am not a "god lover" however I respect that many here, are in his many forms, and I think that you were right to question whether or not anyone would see the light side of that comment...

Get a freaking sense of humour.......

[Francis king]

...certain crimes should be punishable by death... I suggest that any repeat offender of "crimes against the person" without a class A drug addiction or a serious long term mental illness should be humanely euthanized... so, sex attackers, child killers, multiple murderers, successful terrorists, ppl who mug old ladies for fun, none of them would be sitting pretty in jail, we would give them the lethal injections and end their life... we wouldn't then have to feed them or provide them with therapy we know does not work, nor would we spend hundreds of thousands of pounds allowing them to argue their case again and again in court... the prison service would have more money to deal with inmate's problems, and it would hopefully act as a deterrent for some...

obviously, capital punishment is a contentious issue- determining guilt is not as hard as determining innocence, and we would have to be careful that we did not kill innocent ppl, but lie detector tests are 96% accurate, couple this with exemplary evidence gathering and ensuring a person gets a fair trial and u are not likely to then kill innocent ppl...

obviously, we would have to reserve this punishment for the most serious offenders, u can't kill someone because they are an adulterer, or because they have plotted to overthrow the head of state, or have committed a large scale fraud which financially cripples thousands of ppl, or for blasphemy, or for any of the other small time reasons, but I think if u deliberately physically hurt other ppl repeatedly then there should not be a place in society for u at all...

currently in the UK there is more than 80,000 ppl in jail... about 6,000 of these are in jail for sex offences, and the biggest group, those who commit violence against the person number some 17,000... of these two groups, there are approcximately 7600 "lifers", )(those with a mandatory life sentence) (source: bbc news)... but thats just the ones in jail...

...channel four news tells us that there are 30,000 sex offenders on the sex offender register, and the number rises each year... thats a lot of sick wackos...