Allowing child molesters in church?

[I, Brian]

He's right, niranjan, the British Empire is no more, and pretty much everything outside of the UK, Gibraltar, and the Falkland Islands is pretty much ruled by the inhabitants of those countries.

If you want something to fight against, you may want to update your worldview from the 19th to 21st century.

Otherwise I may as well start cross-posting threads demanding compensation to the people of Britain from the Netherlands, Germany, and Belgium, for the atrocities commited by the Saxons; Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, for the atrocities commited by the Vikings; France for the atrocities commited by the Norse, and Italy for the atrocities of the Romans.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Read into our country more than this...

So you are a britisher , not an american. No probs.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Just a brief look on a wiki we have done thousands of amazing and good things, so if you want to continue on this route make a thread relevant about it instead of this thread.. Then STUDY and read about our country the read and study about your own country and other countries... and lets see how bad our country truly is.....

And then why on earth did your country came to India as cunning traders, and invaded the whole land, and slaughtered and destroyed the economy , as stated in my previous post. Did you think that was very noble.

And what about what the britishers have done in north america, which lead to the american revolution and what they have done to the canadian indians.
And about how they invaded france, which lead to the legendary Joan fighting against them. Do you think that was noble as well.

And what about what the britishers did in Africa. Do you think that is noble as well.

And what about what the British did in china, where they using their force,they made the chinese drug addicts, in order to pursue their own materialistic goals, making money.

And what about what the British did in other parts of Asia. Who invited them there , to do all their imperialistic stuff. Would you like it if the indians or chinese or africans or aborginals invaded Britain , colonized your people ,slaughtered and raped them, and exploited them, like the romans who invaded britain did.

.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

We are one of the most human countries there is.... You are bringing up past... OH LETS GO AND HATE THE GERMANS!! Because of the Nazi's!!

Sorry nazism is no more, but british imperialism is there. If not , leave canada, new zealand, and australia to their original inhabitants, like the way you left India and Hong Kong and sri lanka and other countries .

And also what do you think the British are doing in Iraq. More than 650000 Iraqi civiilians have been killed, and within two years this will reach the 1 million mark, making it the first genocide of the 21 st century.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by niranjan

So you are a britisher , not an american. No probs.

100%..... Indeed there is no problem with that.

Originally Posted by niranjan

And then why on earth did your country came to India as cunning traders, and invaded the whole land, and slaughtered and destroyed the economy , as stated in my previous post. Did you think that was very noble.

And what about what the britishers have done in north america, which lead to the american revolution and what they have done to the canadian indians.
And about how they invaded france, which lead to the legendary Joan fighting against them. Do you think that was noble as well.

And what about what the britishers did in Africa. Do you think that is noble as well.

And what about what the British did in china, where they using their force,they made the chinese drug addicts, in order to pursue their own materialistic goals, making money.

And what about what the British did in other parts of Asia. Who invited them there , to do all their imperialistic stuff. Would you like it if the indians or chinese or africans or aborginals invaded Britain , colonized your people ,slaughtered and raped them, and exploited them, like the romans who invaded britain did.

.


Sorry nazism is no more, but british imperialism is there. If not , leave canada, new zealand, and australia to their original inhabitants, like the way you left India and Hong Kong and sri lanka and other countries .

And also what do you think the British are doing in Iraq. More than 650000 Iraqi civiilians have been killed, and within two years this will reach the 1 million mark, making it the first genocide of the 21 st century.

Oh yeah... lol sorry I forgot that I said I agree with all of the actions of what we have done in the past.......... Wait....Where did I say that?

You are speaking of an Empire that NO LONGER FREAKING EXISTS lol....

But, in making an empire, you are trying to dominate the world, you are also trying to unite the world under one banner... You are also looking out for the welfare of your country..... In these OLD OLD OLD times... That you are mentioning there were times you had to show yourself to be strong or fold....

Iraq? What has that got to do with this English Empire that I had no idea was still so active? Again I do not agree with us being in Iraq... But, there is a thing called politics.... Anyway time for me to go home leave work... I will try and keep an eye on this interesting talk lol...

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by niranjan

And then why on earth did your country came to India as cunning traders, and invaded the whole land, and slaughtered and destroyed the economy , as stated in my previous post. Did you think that was very noble.

They didn't invade - the East India Company had one or more outposts (I've have to recheck figures) and these were directly threatened by the French looking to mobilise Indian rulers to squeeze British commerce out of India.

So the East India Company sought to mobilise Indian rulers to align with the British against the French. Once the French stepped down, the East India Company found itself had gained incredible political power and influence in India, sparking something of a domestic crisis in British politics at the prospectic of a private company governing it's own sizeable country.

The bottom line is that India got caught up in European politics, and sided with the British. I've only read British-Indian history up to around 1872, but so far I haven't seen any of the slaughter and rapine you allude to, nor the collapse of any economy, though I'm quite aware things get ugly after this period.

Originally Posted by niranjan

And what about what the britishers have done in north america, which lead to the american revolution and what they have done to the canadian indians.

Blaming the Brits for the emergent of a bunch of tax rebels who founded their own country and expanded how they see fit from it suggests a woeful understanding of US history.

Originally Posted by niranjan

And about how they invaded france, which lead to the legendary Joan fighting against them. Do you think that was noble as well.

Blimey, you don't like the Brits, do you? But you show an even bigger ignorance of history here. Recommend you read some European history from the period so you can understand the context of the events you are misrepresenting.

Originally Posted by niranjan

And what about what the britishers did in Africa. Do you think that is noble as well.

What did the Brits do in Africa? The slave trade? A trade as old as humanity itself, and keenly supplied by West African kingdoms?

Are you claiming that slavery has no history in India? How about modern slavery in India?

Originally Posted by niranjan

And what about what the British did in other parts of Asia. Who invited them there , to do all their imperialistic stuff.

Commerce. Simple enough.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Would you like it if the indians or chinese or africans or aborginals invaded Britain , colonized your people ,slaughtered and raped them, and exploited them, like the romans who invaded britain did.

Indeed, Britain has a longer history of suffering invasion, going back at least 10,000 years, than most any other country in the world. Again, you show insufferable ignorance.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're simply trying for a reaction, than form an argument.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Sorry nazism is no more, but british imperialism is there. If not , leave canada, new zealand, and australia to their original inhabitants, like the way you left India and Hong Kong and sri lanka and other countries .

They do have their own countries. They govern themselves. You might notice this if you were more aware of the 21st century.

Originally Posted by niranjan

And also what do you think the British are doing in Iraq. More than 650000 Iraqi civiilians have been killed, and within two years this will reach the 1 million mark, making it the first genocide of the 21 st century.

Indeed, and you'll find Tony Blair is very unpopular in Britain for this, widely regarded as trying to arrange the war through duplicity and falsehood. You might notice this again if you were more aware of current events.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

You are speaking of an Empire that NO LONGER FREAKING EXISTS lol....

Yeah, tell that to the aborginals, maoris, and canadian indians.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

But, in making an empire, you are trying to dominate the world, you are also trying to unite the world under one banner... ....

And what indeed is wrong in uniting the world. What do you think the united nations is there for.

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

You are also looking out for the welfare of your country..... In these OLD OLD OLD times...




That you are mentioning there were times you had to show yourself to be strong or fold....

You can be strong for the sake of self-defence, which is noble, but what is the need for colonizing other countries and exploiting them.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by niranjan

Yeah, tell that to the aborginals, maoris, and canadian indians.




And what indeed is wrong in uniting the world. What do you think the united nations is there for.






You can be strong for the sake of self-defence, which is noble, but what is the need for colonizing other countries and exploiting them.

I repeat Niranjan, as I detect that you dont always see whats written, "you are you'r own worst enemy". Try and see what I mean for once...my human...'pal'.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

They didn't invade - the East India Company had one or more outposts (I've have to recheck figures) and these were directly threatened by the French looking to mobilise Indian rulers to squeeze British commerce out of India. .

So you are teaching me , an Indian, what your people have done in India.Go through my earlier posts in this thread and find out for yourself.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

So the East India Company sought to mobilise Indian rulers to align with the British against the French. .

The east india company indeed had to take permission from the Indian rulers to set up base in this country. And they indeed were begging for our permission before the mughals and others.

And Tipu Sultan, was a good ally of the French, and fought against the British and defeated them many times, till he was eventually killed in war.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

The bottom line is that India got caught up in European politics, and sided with the British. .

We did not side with anyone. It was the british who fought against us in India after conveniently and cunningly getting bases from us and building up their power.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I've only read British-Indian history up to around 1872, but so far I haven't seen any of the slaughter and rapine you allude to, nor the collapse of any economy, though I'm quite aware things get ugly after this period..

Oh really, and what do you think the 1857 'First war of Independence 'was.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Blaming the Brits for the emergent of a bunch of tax rebels who founded their own country and expanded how they see fit from it suggests a woeful understanding of US history.

Well, perhaps if the britishers didn't impose huge taxes on the americans, and do other despotic stuff, the american revolution might not have taken place.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Blimey, you don't like the Brits, do you?

As I said before, as Gandhi himself showed, we are against British imperialism, not the britishers. Perhaps you should do some introspection on why your country indeed is so materialistic and have cut the throats of the people of other lands and looted their wealth . Is it a good thing to do. Is this what Jesus taught.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What did the Brits do in Africa? The slave trade? A trade as old as humanity itself, and keenly supplied by West African kingdoms?

Good that you admitted this. So if the British were cannibalistic, would you defend that by saying that other nations too were cannibalistic.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Are you claiming that slavery has no history in India? How about modern slavery in India?

The dharmic religions Buddhism, Sikhism ,Jainism did not condone slavery.

And as for the so-called 'modern slavery in India', it is but bonded labour in certain rural areas of India which is not under police jurisdiction, and mainly due to intense poverty, which if the British had not come to India, we would not have been suffering from.

And anyway even the so-called bonded child labour is banned in India by the constitution, and the media always highlights these incidents in rural areas.
Many NGOs and hindu spiritual organisations have rescued many such children and have given them free education and nutrition and homes.

Many culprits have been arrested. I myself who am working along with some friends, needed a cook, but we have to make certain he is above a certain age,or we will be behind bars.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Commerce. Simple enough.

Yeah, perverted and immoral commerce which was interested in filling the pockets of the britishers without any heed for what is happening to the people in these lands.

The seven blunders that human society commits and cause all the violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, and politics without principles.

---Gandhi.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Indeed, Britain has a longer history of suffering invasion, going back at least 10,000 years, than most any other country in the world. Again, you show insufferable ignorance. .

Well, I am aware that 2500 years back, when the so-called britishers were living in forests and caves, running around naked,and painting themselves blue, the Indians were indulging in religion, advanced philosophy and metaphysics, which culminated in the Buddha and Mahavira at that time.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I'm beginning to wonder if you're simply trying for a reaction, than form an argument..

Perhaps if you check the facts for yourself ,you will find out whether I am right or wrong.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

They do have their own countries. They govern themselves. You might notice this if you were more aware of the 21st century...

And don't you think that a maori should rule New Zealand, an aborginal should rule new zealand, and a canadian indian should rule canada, like all the other countries, without going and presenting themselves to the queen as well.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Indeed, and you'll find Tony Blair is very unpopular in Britain for this, widely regarded as trying to arrange the war through duplicity and falsehood. You might notice this again if you were more aware of current events.

And so what , you guys elected him. So it indeed becomes the fault of the british as well.

India staunchly opposed the invasion from the very beginning itself, and many rallies came up in India condemning the british.

When the britishers who are being thrashed in Iraq,asked India to send troops to Iraq and promised perks as well, public opinion in India was inflamed very much ,which forced the Indian prime minister to remark to the public that it will not be done.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

I repeat Niranjan, as I detect that you dont always see whats written, "you are you'r own worst enemy". Try and see what I mean for once...my human...'pal'.

May be so, but I am indeed making you aware of what your country has done, so indeed have to thank me for it. This will give you a chance to redress and make amends for what your country have done and apologize to these people . Don't you think this is what Jesus meant when he said.....

"What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?"

Think about it.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by niranjan

May be so, but I am indeed making you aware of what your country has done, so indeed have to thank me for it. This will give you a chance to redress and make amends for what your country have done and apologize to these people . Don't you think this is what Jesus meant when he said.....

"What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?"

Think about it.

Why the hell would I feel the need to appologise for the actions of people in history? And you make me aware of nothing but your own nationalist brand of hate. I am pretty clued up on The British East India Company, as well as Portugese, French and Dutch commercial operations in India. None of which could have succeeded without the full co-operation of local Indian Warlords. The Indian 'nation' did not exist back then so you are talking thru you'r arse as usual.

The seven blunders that human society commits and cause all the violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, and politics without principles.

---Gandhi.

Well maybe you should listen on these 2 points at least to what he is saying.

You know before I found this forum I looked at a few that were full of people like you. So why dont you take your EGO and your IGNORANCE to the forums you refer to. This is absolutely my last reply to you because you are simply not worth the effort of replying to.

[Tao_Equus]

For others,

Anyone remember that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "the nights from nee" where they have to cross that bridge?

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Why the hell would I feel the need to appologise for the actions of people in history?.

Because they were done by your ancestors , not very long back as well.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

And you make me aware of nothing but your own nationalist brand of hate. I am pretty clued up on The British East India Company, as well as Portugese, French and Dutch commercial operations in India.

We indeed had relations with the portuguese, dutch and french, as long as they toed our line. And when they stepped the line, they invited trouble, as is seen by the way Marthanda Varma thrashed the dutch in Kerala, and Shivaji thrashed the portuguese in Goa and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

The Indian 'nation' did not exist back then so you are talking thru you'r arse as usual.

Well, the Indian people indeed were living in the Indian 'nation', so if you want to deny the nation, look at the people, after all it is the people who make up the nation.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

You know before I found this forum I looked at a few that were full of people like you. So why dont you take your EGO and your IGNORANCE to the forums you refer to.

Well, I indeed am there in many forums dude, and I have highlighted British imperialism in these as well.

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

This is absolutely my last reply to you because you are simply not worth the effort of replying to.

Oh really, thats what you said a few posts back. Anyway, did I tell you to reply to my posts! No, I don't think so.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by niranjan

So you are teaching me , an Indian, what your people have done in India.Go through my earlier posts in this thread and find out for yourself.

And that's the point - all you have to say is invective against others. You rarely post fact, but love ideological quotes. Then wonder why I must needs educate you?

Originally Posted by niranjan

The east india company indeed had to take permission from the Indian rulers to set up base in this country. And they indeed were begging for our permission before the mughals and others.

So are you saying that the British asked with civility to base operations in India, instead of simply burning their way in?

Originally Posted by niranjan

And Tipu Sultan, was a good ally of the French, and fought against the British and defeated them many times, till he was eventually killed in war.

Yes, the good old French.

Originally Posted by niranjan

We did not side with anyone. It was the british who fought against us in India after conveniently and cunningly getting bases from us and building up their power.

No, there was no "us". There was British-owned East India Company with it's armies of Indian soliders, fighting to survive against French-owned interests defended by Indian soliders.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Oh really, and what do you think the 1857 'First war of Independence 'was.

A people reacting against ownership by a private corporation? Yes, indeed, it was.

There was no British political power in India until that point. And if the British had simply left India alone, you would now be railing against the imperialism of France, Portugal, or Spain.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Well, perhaps if the britishers didn't impose huge taxes on the americans, and do other despotic stuff, the american revolution might not have taken place.

Yes, taxes are such an evil, aren't they? We are definitely in agreement there!

Originally Posted by niranjan

As I said before, as Gandhi himself showed, we are against British imperialism, not the britishers. Perhaps you should do some introspection on why your country indeed is so materialistic and have cut the throats of the people of other lands and looted their wealth . Is it a good thing to do. Is this what Jesus taught.

That's the problem for you - British Imperialism ended after the Second World War. Britain was bankrupt - it couldn't afford to be imperial anymore. That era of history ended. But you can't let that part of history go, and I'll explain why in a thread especially just for you.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Good that you admitted this. So if the British were cannibalistic, would you defend that by saying that other nations too were cannibalistic.

If India had been cannabilistic, and Britain had been cannabilistic, then obviously you would have no moral high ground to claim the British as worse in this regard - which is exactly my point, and proven.

Originally Posted by niranjan

The dharmic religions Buddhism, Sikhism ,Jainism did not condone slavery.

Funnily enough, we were talking about India, a majority Hindu nation. As before, you mentioned how great it was to be part of around 1.3 billion Hindus, and associated strongly with that. Are you now claiming to be a Jain?

Originally Posted by niranjan

And as for the so-called 'modern slavery in India', it is but bonded labour in certain rural areas of India which is not under police jurisdiction, and mainly due to intense poverty, which if the British had not come to India, we would not have been suffering from.

Yes, isn't it awful - there was never any such thing as poverty in any agricultural society of the world before the British came.

Those damn annoying peasants - the foundation of Hindu civilisation - so annoying that they keep to the old ways and not modern British methods?

Originally Posted by niranjan

Many culprits have been arrested. I myself who am working along with some friends, needed a cook, but we have to make certain he is above a certain age,or we will be behind bars.

Of course, if you were living in India before the British, you would also have to make sure he was of the correct social class, and also not have to worry about such dumb Western ideals as child protection.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Yeah, perverted and immoral commerce which was interested in filling the pockets of the britishers without any heed for what is happening to the people in these lands.

There's another point you missed - the rich always served the interests of the rich.

I can assure you that, as from a long line of undistinguished Yorkshire peasants, we weren't lining our pockets without any heed for what is happening to the people in these lands. I'm sure the Rajas were equally blameless, weren't they?

Originally Posted by niranjan

The seven blunders that human society commits and cause all the violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, and politics without principles.

Oh, I'm not going to condone violence - you've picked the wrong boyo for that - but while you quote that, you may wish to find a few quotes praising the spiritual qualities of arrogance and pride, because that's all you're bringing to the discussion table at present.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Well, I am aware that 2500 years back, when the so-called britishers were living in forests and caves, running around naked,and painting themselves blue, the Indians were indulging in religion, advanced philosophy and metaphysics, which culminated in the Buddha and Mahavira at that time.

I'm not going to trade "my ancient civilisation is better than yours", but I will point out that more than 6000 years ago the British were routinely building complicated astronomical laboratories. You may have heard of one of them - Stonehenge.

The only difference is that the British who built these left no written records, instead relying on oral traditions. However, if India hadn't been placed and routinely crossed over by the Sumerians and Chinese, perhaps India never would have either.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Perhaps if you check the facts for yourself ,you will find out whether I am right or wrong.

You've never given me any facts. Invective, yes.

Originally Posted by niranjan

And don't you think that a maori should rule New Zealand, an aborginal should rule new zealand, and a canadian indian should rule canada, like all the other countries, without going and presenting themselves to the queen as well.

Without British ideals such as democracy, they wouldn't even have the chance to rule their own countries. Perhaps you would prefer the good old days of bowing down before dictatorial kings?

Originally Posted by niranjan

And so what , you guys elected him. So it indeed becomes the fault of the british as well.

Again, you're ignorant. The British people have never elected a Prime Minister. They elected the party.

And again, you make the point of blaming the British people for the ills of the world, when before you tried to claim it was simply Gandi's perceived British Imperialism.

Originally Posted by niranjan

When the britishers who are being thrashed in Iraq,asked India to send troops to Iraq and promised perks as well, public opinion in India was inflamed very much ,which forced the Indian prime minister to remark to the public that it will not be done.

Perhaps if the Indian government had been as conniving and manipulative as ours, then no such thing would have happened.

[Miss Amy]

Niranajn

I am curious to know what it is you believe has been "done" to Canadian Indians?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, niranjan!

Thank you for an entertaining discussion.

Originally Posted by niranjan

Because they were done by your ancestors , not very long back as well.

In large part I am unlearned in this portion of history, so I am learning. However, I choose to quote this one point because I think it is the crux of your position.

This I quoted infers that I am guilty for the sins of my fathers...something I vehemently deny. I am guilty and will bear the consequences of my sins alone, not those of any others. If it were otherwise, then you sir are guilty of the sins of your children as well as your fathers...

Surely you are not so brash as to tell us you and your kin have absolutely no sin? If you prefer Karma, then explain sir how the negative karma of your ancestral kinfolk reflect directly on yourself in this arising? No sir, one's karma is one's own, and no other. I am not guilty of my father's indisgressions, nor would my child be guilty of mine. We each answer for ourselves, and ourselves only.

Once you understand this, I think you will see it takes a great deal of the thunder out of your argument. I think you will find forgiveness a useful tool as well.

Or, I suppose you can continue to cast yourself in the role of victim and further impede your own spiritual progress...that choice is yours.

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

And that's the point - all you have to say is invective against others. You rarely post fact, but love ideological quotes. Then wonder why I must needs educate you?

Well, if you want facts , here you go..


British Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East India Company, British: Information from Answers.com

Indian Rebellion of 1857 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bengal famine of 1770 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jallianwala Bagh massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by I, Brian

So are you saying that the British asked with civility to base operations in India, instead of simply burning their way in?

Well, if they did that , that would have been the end of our problem and no british invasion, which they enabled by cunningly building up their power in India by expanding from their base, would have happened.

It was a big mistake on our part to grant these guys bases, out of sympathy.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

No, there was no "us". There was British-owned East India Company with it's armies of Indian soliders, fighting to survive against French-owned interests defended by Indian soliders.

Well, it was the britishers who were running the company, and it was britain that was enjoying the profits. And who do you think fought in the 1857 first war of independence.

And after that Victoria was crowned empress of India, by her cronies.