Aleister Crowley - a fraud?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Phyllis,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Namastar ji, Vaj, but what events are you refering to? I'm from Milwaukee and I haven't heard anything.

Bolshoi spacibo (Russian for big/huge/great thanks).

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

the Western Hemispheres meeting of the I.O.T. was recently held in Milwaukee.. and it is this event to which i'm referring.

the O.T.O. and the I.O.T. seem to be at each others throats.. especially in recent years.

i'm not at liberty to discuss too much of the meeting, i'm sure you understand

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by alexa

Hi bgruagach,
Could you tell me what you know about Crowley and the releation to Wicca, please ?

Sure!

I'll start by providing three books that contain excellent information on the topic:

"The Rebirth of Witchcraft" by Doreen Valiente (Doreen was one of Gerald Gardner's earliest, and probably most influential, high priestesses.)

"Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration" by Philip Heselton.

"The Triumph of the Moon" by Ronald Hutton.

Hutton's the most scholarly and the most in depth on the origins and influences of Wicca. Heselton's books provide a lot of interesting information (and the one I mentioned above has a lot on the Crowley connection in particular) but some of his conclusions are not very solid. Valiente provides a lot of valuable insight as she was there almost from the first and provides her own experiences and insights that many others repeat as second-hand info.

The short version of events is that Gardner, being the all-round occultist that he was, had read some of Crowley's material (it was available well before Gardner started into Wicca) as well as many other English occult documents such as Margaret Murray's witchcraft books, Folklore Society stuff, Ross Nichols' druidry, etc.

Gardner was taken to meet Crowley in 1947 by a mutual acquaintance, Arnold Crowther (who became a Wiccan and was married to Patricia Crowther, one of Gardner's later high priestesses.) Crowther had contacted Crowley previously and asked if he could bring Gardner along to meet him.

Gardner was all gung-ho to get involved in Crowley's OTO at that point, and obtained (was given or purchased) a charter from Crowley to start up a lodge and administer at least the very first couple of OTO degrees.

Gardner met with Crowley once or twice after that first meeting. Crowley died in 1947 so Gardner didn't have a lot of opportunity to spend with him.

There were rumors that Crowley had written the Wiccan Book of Shadows (the manual of basic rituals and philosophy) but this is pretty much considered to be false. Crowley would have done much better if he'd done the writing -- the Crowley bits that are in there are obviously copied from existing Crowley material, some of it not copied too accurately from what I've heard.

Gardner didn't pursue involvement in the OTO too seriously and instead put his energy into Wicca after Crowley's death.

There is a lot of interesting information about Gardner (including the Crowley connection, and pictures of Gardner's OTO charter) at http://www.geraldgardner.com/ Check in the Archive section for the OTO charter.

Gardner was also influenced by other sources (Dion Fortune, grimoires like the Key of Solomon, Margaret Murray, and druidry) so Wicca isn't just an OTO wanna-be system but an eclectic compilation.

[alexa]

COOL, I'll try to find the books. Nice link.

Thanks again, bgruagach,

alexa

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by bgruagach

Sure!

"Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration" by Philip Heselton.

Philip Heselton is a local author here - got one of his books on ley-lines. Fairly sane reading, and comfortably short, but I've not read this particular work.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Philip Heselton is a local author here - got one of his books on ley-lines. Fairly sane reading, and comfortably short, but I've not read this particular work.

I expect Heselton would be a very interesting man to chat with. "Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration" is similar to his earlier one, "Wiccan Roots" but goes into a lot more detail.

[I, Brian]

I chatteed with his wife when I turned up to a local Friends of the Earth meeting, a few years back. Towards the end, I told them that their newsletter was pretty poorly formated and offered to help improve it. They were not impressed and I never went back.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I chatteed with his wife when I turned up to a local Friends of the Earth meeting, a few years back. Towards the end, I told them that their newsletter was pretty poorly formated and offered to help improve it. They were not impressed and I never went back.

Some people are overly sensitive of any creative efforts, including newsletters. They sound like it was their "baby" and therefore your comment about the formatting was an insult.

It's their loss. People who expect to be handled with kid gloves all the time rarely find they end up with many friends.

[I, Brian]

Heh, same thing happened with the local archaeology group when I mentioned the problems with their out-of-date single page website.

[alexa]

Brian,

Did you notice how the drivers react in their car ? A good driver will take a look around quickly and pass. But, a lot of them will pass without looking at all.

Those from the second category maybe they don't care or they are too afraid to look around. I don't wanna talk about others, as I try to make a point.

In my opinion, you spoke with people from the second category, those who drive without looking.

I agree with Ben.

Regards,

alexa

[spiritman51]

I don't think that Crowley was a fraud, but he was fey. He was raised in a very strict sect of Evangelical Christianity founded by a man called Darby(?) who was the fellow who developed Dispensationalism (sp?). Crowley's mother was the one who gave him the title of "the Beast". So a lot of the outlandish things he did and said were framed by his strict Plymouth Brethren upbringing. Also, Crowley was brillant and had a sharp bitting wit. He made a lots of enemies. He did a lot of Magical Workings and wrote a lot of books. Crowley should be judged in the light of the "bel epoch" and just afterward. The gore and horror of WWI, the Russian Revolution, the Jazz Age and Suffrage for women. In a time when most "Orders" looked for ancient sources (an example could be Wicca), Crowley looked toward the New Aeon. I think he can be judged by his very beautiful Tarot deck, which is in the "cubist" style and very complex. I think what made Crowley a great magician was that he dared. I think Crowley's weakness was that he did not keep silent.

[Erynn]

Crowley was easily as much showman as magician, but yes, he was a deeply flawed man. I think he believed his own propaganda about being the world's wickedest man, or at least wanted to.

The maxim as usually used by Thelemites is "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law. Love is the law; love under will." He was apparently playing off Augustine there, as he did have quite a lot of reading under his belt. It is often condensed to a simple 93 from the Hebrew gematria (numerology) of the phrase. I've got a number of Thelemite and OTO friends, and I know John Michael as well, who's a pretty cool character. He's very thorough in his researches, and specializes in the history of magical lodges.

Few of Crowley's claims about himself were quite as he made them, though he was apparently a very accomplished mountaineer. He speaks in his Autobiography of having ascended K2 at some length. From what I understand, he did set some mountaineering record or another that still stands today, though I don't know where or how to verify that.

He was deeply personally irresponsible, and yes, I would agree that he was dangerous. He loaded his books of magical instruction with details that were off, so as to create a "blind" for the uninitiated. Those with association with other trained magicians would know what was wrong or missing, while a general reader would have no idea. When working with his materials, it's best to compare them to the materials of Israel Regardie (who worked as his personal secretary for many years) or to other, Golden Dawn style sources. Going back to the original grimoires of the medieval magicians would probably be helpful as well, including texts like the Keys of Solomon.

I would caution any beginning magician to take anything Crowley wrote (even Magick Without Tears) to be suspect and potentially dangerous. For more advanced magicians, he can provide some interesting materials, however.

One of his most famous works, The Book of the Law (the foundation of Thelema), was actually channelled by one of his Scarlet Women. He merely recorded it, but being the kind of person he was, he took pretty much all the credit. Likewise, he created a basic design for the Book of Thoth tarot deck, but Lady Frieda Harris was the one who did all the artistic work.

I find him a fascinating individual, but I wouldn't have trusted him as far as I could pick him up and fling him.

Then again, I'd say the same about Gerald Gardner and Alex Sanders

[Mastorn]

Ave,

I have started studying Crowley a great deal over the past year. Its quite interesting in that he left so much material behind that you can't help but start a "relationship" with this guy even though you've never met him. I treat him mainly from a psychiatric perspective. I look at the things he writes and wonder how his background and personal predjudices affected it. After removing thoes I try and see what wisdom is there. It was through my studying of Crowley that I came to accept the Book of the Law as a major part of my beliefs. A main starting point for this is when I realized that Crowley was not WISE enought to write the Book of the Law. There must have been "somthing" assisting him in it. Now what this somthing is is up to anyones guess, but The Book Of the Law is deffiantly important in my life.
Just some quick thoughts.

Ave,
Mastorn

[killmyprince]

Although we can never prove how enlightened Crowley really was (or if he even was so to begin with), we do know that he contributed heavily to magickal philosophy, which is basically the main reason why we love him today. We don't really remember magicians as magicians. Sure, we remember all sorts of funny stories about them and their political-turned-magickal squabbles, but if they haven't contributed some kind of new take on magick, then we generally wouldn't know about them.

Crowley is remembered for two reasons: Thelema and providing a good definition for magick.

So, it doesn't really matter if Crowley was a fraud, because his philosophy proves itself to be useful and in good sense (most of the time). In addition, most magicians are a little bit fraudulant anyway. In fact, there's no way that a good magician is not also a good trickster, because magick, as Peter Carroll puts it, is sleight of mind.

[lucius]

Originally Posted by bgruagach

m.

There were rumors that Crowley had written the Wiccan Book of Shadows (the manual of basic rituals and philosophy) but this is pretty much considered to be false. Crowley would have done much better if he'd done the writing -- the Crowley bits that are in there are obviously copied from existing Crowley material, some of it not copied too accurately from what I've heard.

.

I've also read that Valiante played a role in editing certain material that was given by Crowley to Gardner, and did serve, at least partly, as a basis for the Book Of Shadows.
I think it was in a book by Vivienne Crowley (no relation to Aliester).

Anyway, I have to say that I've been interested in Crowley for many years, and my own basic 'philosophy of life' has been much influenced by his doctrine of Thelema -'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'. Although I have only pursued Crowley's methods up to a certain point, nonetheless, I agree with the underlying principles.
Love is the Law, love under will.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by lucius

I've also read that Valiante played a role in editing certain material that was given by Crowley to Gardner, and did serve, at least partly, as a basis for the Book Of Shadows.
I think it was in a book by Vivienne Crowley (no relation to Aliester).

Doreen talked quite openly about confronting Gardner regarding the obviously copied Crowley material (as well as other things that were clearly contemporary borrowings) that were in the Book of Shadows used to run the coven. Gardner said something to the effect of "well then fix it" and so Doreen did.

It's all explained in Doreen Valiente's book "The Rebirth of Witchcraft."