Abraham's Bosom

[mee]

In the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures Luke 23:43 reads: "And he said to him: ‘Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.’" Jesus said this in answer to the following request of one of the evildoers hung beside him: "Jesus, remember me when you get into your kingdom."—Luke 23:42.

However, other Bible translations punctuate Luke 23:43 differently. For instance, the King James Version says: "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."


There is no question but that the position of the comma changes the meaning of the verse.

In the King James Version the comma’s being placed before the word "today" makes it appear that Jesus told the evildoer that he would be in Paradise that very same day.

This would mean that Jesus would have to come into his Kingdom, and that Jesus, as well as the evildoer, would be in Paradise on that very day that he was speaking.


In the original Greek language of the Christian Greek Scriptures, how is this sentence punctuated?

It is not punctuated at all. Why not? Because the writers of the Greek Scriptures did not use punctuation at that time.

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956, Volume 23, page 16, states: "No attempt to punctuate is apparent in the earlier manuscripts and inscriptions of the Greeks." It was not until the 9th century C.E. that punctuation came into general use.

Although later Greek texts such as that of Westcott and Hort put the comma before the Greek word for "today," they did so according to their own understanding and religious beliefs.

However, neither the comma nor any of the other punctuation was there in the older Greek texts.


Where, then, should the comma be put? What is the testimony of God’s own Word on this matter? What did Jesus himself say? Did he believe he was going to inherit his kingdom and be in some kind of Paradise immediately after he died, in that same twenty-four-hour period?


Earlier, to his disciples, Jesus stated: "The Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the older men and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised up." (Luke 9:22) The two angels at the tomb told the women who had come there: "He is not here, but has been raised up. Recall how he spoke to you while he was yet in Galilee, saying that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be impaled and yet on the third day rise."—Luke 24:6, 7.


Jesus was not resurrected on the day he died, but on the third day from his death. Thus, he could not have come into his kingdom on the day of his death.


Then where was he during those three days, before his resurrection? Acts 2:24 says: "God resurrected him by loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to continue to be held fast by it." So Jesus was in the grip of death during that time.

Acts 2:27 further says concerning him: "You will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your loyal one to see corruption." Hence, Jesus was in Hades, which is mankind’s common grave.

And the Bible says that there is "no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [LXX, Hades]." So he was out of existence in Hades, as was the evildoer.—Eccl. 9:5, 10.


Then, on the third day from his death, God raised Jesus from the dead as a mighty spirit creature. But the evildoer was not raised; he stayed in the grave.—1 Pet. 3:18.


When Jesus, after his resurrection, materialized to appear to his disciples, they asked him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" (Acts 1:6) Jesus showed that the answer was, No. The time had not yet come for his kingdom to be established.


Then, was God’s heavenly kingdom, with Jesus as king, established at any time during the lives of the apostles? No, for about sixty-three years after Jesus’ death and resurrection the apostle John was inspired to write that God’s kingdom was still in the future. (Revelation chapter 12) And it would be under that future kingdom that paradise would be restored.


Thus, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, in its rendering of Luke 23:43, is consistent with the truth of God’s Word concerning the establishment of God’s kingdom, the Paradise earth that will be restored under Kingdom rule, the condition of the dead, and where Jesus was during those three days.


Other translators have also seen the difficulty involving the comma in this scripture. The Riverside New Testament avoided the problem by not putting in a comma at all, rendering it: "I tell you truly to-day you will be with me in Paradise." On the other hand, The New Testament by George M. Lamsa renders it: "Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise." Also The Emphasised Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham reads: "Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise."



So what Jesus was saying was that when God’s kingdom by Christ was established at a time then future, and when Paradise was restored to the earth, this evildoer could expect to be resurrected to have an opportunity for eternal life. He would be included among those mentioned at Acts 24:15, where it states: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."


As an "unrighteous" person he would be resurrected and given the opportunity to learn of God’s purposes and requirements. If obedient to God and his King-Son, he would live forever on that Paradise earth, qualified to be among those of whom Psalm 37:29 foretold: "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."

[Faithfulservant]

besides the argument on translations and the lack of punctuation in the greek language...I would think it prudent to mention all the many many MANY times Jesus said "verily verily I say unto you" He never ever NEVER says verily verily I say unto you TODAY, .... " so one could conclude that is not what is being mean in Luke. Especially since the thief asks the Lord to remember him when He gets into His kingdom.... which would have been THAT day... today.... the day they both would die.... Jesus knowing this says verily verily I say unto you... today you will be with me in paradise...

So a little common sense and use of the intelligence our Creator gave us to reason things out... It is one of the characteritics we share with Him when He said to make Man in His image... so we CAN reason the Word out for ourselves... we arent apes.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

I believe it is a common misconception that Christians are headed to the lord immediately.

According to scripture we are all headed to the way station and will all be called up together. There are a lot of folks there waiting if this is so.

I can't remember the exact scripture, but about twenty years ago looked into this fully enough to sastify myself that is how it was written.

Tis times like this the literalists complain they've been sold a bill of goods, feel they got bait and switched at Sunday school and in service. Like with anything, gotta read the small print.

I believe you have no idea what you are talking about, and I resent your holier than thou attitude about this subject.

When a Christian dies, they go immediately to the Lord. You look it up wil. It's been explained over and over again here on CR.

Time you listen to the Christians, instead of the philosophers...

This is their forum after all...not yours.

Q

[seattlegal]

John 5

16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.