Abdu'l-Bahá, where does he stand?

[Seeker_of_truth]

In this is I mean are his words and writtings directly from God? Should Baha'is take his word as "gospel" just like Baha'u'llahs?

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Seeker_of_truth

In this is I mean are his words and writtings directly from God? Should Baha'is take his word as "gospel" just like Baha'u'llahs?

Abdul-Baha was the eldest Son of Baha'u'llah and on the ascension of Baha'u'llah was identified in His Will as the authorized Interpretor of the Writings of Baha'u'llah and the Center of the Faith in succession.

So any interpretations by Abdul-Baha of the principles of Baha'u'llah and His Writings are authoritative.

He is not regarded by Baha'is as a Manifestation of God or the Return of Christ or even a Prophet. His title is Abdul-Baha which means the Servant of Baha. If you look at our Prayer Books you will see that the prayers revealed by Abdul-Baha are last in order after those of Baha'u'llah and the Bab.

"The Bahai Revelation has two Manifestations, the BAB and BAHA'U'LLAH. ABDUL BAHA the Perfect Examplar, the Centre of the Covenant of mankind, the true interpreter of His Words, a perfect human being. To give Abdul Baha a station comparable to Baha'u'llah is absolute heresy."

- Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Faith

[I, Brian]

That's a very interesting reply, Arthra - is Bah'u'llah isn't regarded as a Manifestation of God, Return of Christ, or even a prophet, then what is it that gives authority to his teachings?

I don;t mean that in an offensive way - simply that usually some sense of Divine Authority is often ascribed to spiritual leaders - and your answer suggests that he had none.

Or is it simply that the Baha'i Faith's terminology is succintly different, and that "Servant of Baha" is all of the above terms by equivalence, rather than definition, if that makes sense?

[Seeker_of_truth]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

That's a very interesting reply, Arthra - is Bah'u'llah isn't regarded as a Manifestation of God, Return of Christ, or even a prophet, then what is it that gives authority to his teachings?

I don;t mean that in an offensive way - simply that usually some sense of Divine Authority is often ascribed to spiritual leaders - and your answer suggests that he had none.

Or is it simply that the Baha'i Faith's terminology is succintly different, and that "Servant of Baha" is all of the above terms by equivalence, rather than definition, if that makes sense?

I think you are grossly midunderstanding, BAHA'U'LLAH is the return of Christ, Manefestation of God. ABDUL-BAHA is not a manefestation of God, but an interpreter of the works of the Bab and Baha'u''ah.

Is that about right Athra?

[arthra]

Yep we're speaking of the station of Abdul-Baha when I wrote:

"So any interpretations by Abdul-Baha of the principles of Baha'u'llah and His Writings are authoritative.

He (meaning Abdul-Baha) is not regarded by Baha'is as a Manifestation of God or the Return of Christ or even a Prophet. His title is Abdul-Baha which means the Servant of Baha. If you look at our Prayer Books you will see that the prayers revealed by Abdul-Baha are last in order after those of Baha'u'llah and the Bab."

and that's why the quote also cited above indicated that Abdul-Baha is NOT a Manifestation.

- Art

[I, Brian]

Ah, no problem - I was confusing my personages.

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Seeker_of_truth

In this is I mean are his ['Abdu'l-Baha's] words and writtings directly from God? Should Baha'is take his word as "gospel" just like Baha'u'llahs?

I see Art already answered this (and also clarified a misunderstanding), but the short answer is:

According to Baha'u'llah, definitely!

Regards,

Bruce