A Vision of Baha'u'llah

I, Brian · 03-14-2004, 08:02 PM

Here's a hypothetical:

Is it possible for someone to have a vision of Baha'u'llah? If so, to what extent?

How about meet up and converse with Baha'u'llah in some inexplicable spritual manner?

Is Baha'u'llah gone, never to be communicated with again, excepting through words on pages? Or is it possible for Baha'is - and perhaps others - to somehow commune with Baha'u'llah in some extraordinary way?

If Uncle Bob claimed - with all sincerity - to have communicated directly with Baha'u'llah, then what would the expect Baha'i reaction be? Or is that question a strictly individual one to answer?

9Harmony · 03-14-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Here's a hypothetical:

Is it possible for someone to have a vision of Baha'u'llah? If so, to what extent?

How about meet up and converse with Baha'u'llah in some inexplicable spritual manner?

Is Baha'u'llah gone, never to be communicated with again, excepting through words on pages? Or is it possible for Baha'is - and perhaps others - to somehow commune with Baha'u'llah in some extraordinary way?

If Uncle Bob claimed - with all sincerity - to have communicated directly with Baha'u'llah, then what would the expect Baha'i reaction be? Or is that question a strictly individual one to answer?

Hi Brian,

I think it's pretty individual.

Someone just the other day on another forum mentioned that she heard Baha'u'llah's voice in a dream.

Other's have had dreams in which Abdu'l-Baha has appeared to them.

There is one case of a woman who had a near death experience and discovered the Faith during her experience. I don't remember specifics, but I know there is a video about her case.

Unfortunately I have never had such a bounty bestowed upon me, but that's not to say I never will. Someday I hope to be so blessed.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

berinwitness · 03-14-2004, 08:59 PM

No Baha'i is allowed to say "I had a vision of Baha'u'llah, He said thus-and-so, and all Baha'is must agree with what He said in my vision." Doctrine is found only in our scriptures.

But, yes, such visions and dreams do happen. If the person having the vision believes it's real, they should follow the guidance given, but not try to impose it on other Baha'is.

arthra · 03-15-2004, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Here's a hypothetical:

Is it possible for someone to have a vision of Baha'u'llah? If so, to what extent?

How about meet up and converse with Baha'u'llah in some inexplicable spritual manner?

Is Baha'u'llah gone, never to be communicated with again, excepting through words on pages? Or is it possible for Baha'is - and perhaps others - to somehow commune with Baha'u'llah in some extraordinary way?

If Uncle Bob claimed - with all sincerity - to have communicated directly with Baha'u'llah, then what would the expect Baha'i reaction be? Or is that question a strictly individual one to answer?

Brian!

Thanks for your notes... As to some of your questions...

"Is Baha'u'llah gone, never to be communicated with again, excepting through words on pages?"

I think what would be good for you to do to understand Baha'u'llah is to explore what a Manifestation of God is.... Abdul-Baha expressed it in these terms:

"...the Holy Manifestations of God are the centers of the light of reality, of the source of mysteries, and of the bounties of love. They are resplendent in the world of hearts and thoughts, and shower eternal graces upon the world of spirits; They give spiritual life and are shining with the light of realities and meanings. The enlightenment of the world of thought comes from these centers of light and sources of mysteries. Without the bounty of the splendor and the instructions of these Holy Beings the world of souls and thoughts would be opaque darkness. Without the irrefutable teachings of those sources of mysteries the human world would become the pasture of animal appetites and qualities, the existence of everything would be unreal, and there would be no true life."

Someone claiming to have a vision of Baha'u'llah would not necessarily be discounted or rejected but whatever they say would have no authority for us as opposed to the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

- Art

I, Brian · 03-15-2004, 11:29 AM

So...it's generally like if people have a vision of Jesus in their lives: it remains a personal experience, and not one for forming a source of extended doctrine. (Excepting in the formation of new denominations, perhaps.)

arthra · 03-15-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

So...it's generally like if people have a vision of Jesus in their lives: it remains a personal experience, and not one for forming a source of extended doctrine. (Excepting in the formation of new denominations, perhaps.)

Yes i think that's correct. All the doctrines or teachings have been revealed in our Writings and by our recognized Interpreters such as Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi...

The Universal House of Justce that we feel is under divine guidance can make determinations on issues not covered by the above, such as how Baha'i laws are to be implimented or perhaps on scientific and ethical issues not covered by our Writings and authorized interpretations made earlier....

One thing that unites Baha'is is our recognition of our Institutions as having authority so we are not polarized into camps and schisms.

- Art

Popeyesays · 10-15-2005, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berinwitness

No Baha'i is allowed to say "I had a vision of Baha'u'llah, He said thus-and-so, and all Baha'is must agree with what He said in my vision." Doctrine is found only in our scriptures.

But, yes, such visions and dreams do happen. If the person having the vision believes it's real, they should follow the guidance given, but not try to impose it on other Baha'is.

Only two Interpreters of Baha`u'llah's writings have ever existed. Abd'ul Baha appointed by Baha`u'llah, and Shoghi Effendi, appointed by Abd'ul Baha.

No one may decree an interpretation of the sacred writings for anyone else. No one may insist that others follow his personal interpretation because it is "correct".

I was actively seeking a faith when I had a dream. The guiding spirit was a woman in robes, illuminated from within. To me it was the Divine Maiden described by Baha`u'llah. Within weeks of the dream whose import to me was "Wait! Soon it will be revealed to you." I was introduced to the Baha`i Faith.

The dream was very important to me, but it is of no guidance to anyone else.

"O YE servants of God! Verily, be not grieved if a thing ye asked of Him remaineth unanswered, inasmuch as He hath been commanded by God to observe silence, a silence which is in truth praiseworthy. We have indeed enabled Thee to truly see in Thy dream a measure of Our Cause, but wert Thou to acquaint them with the hidden Mystery, they would dispute its truth among themselves. Verily Thy Lord, the God of truth, knoweth the very secrets of hearts..."
(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 48)

Regards,
Scott

P.S. The appearance of an old thread prompted me to go rummaging in the dusty old archives. . . .

Scott

BruceDLimber · 10-15-2005, 04:13 PM

Greetings, Brian! :-)

Certainly it is possible for some people to have visions of Baha'u'llah (indeed, I have a "vision" of Him myself, in the form of a mental image, simply because I've seen His portrait several times!).

But even for those for whom this happens, it doesn't confer any direct guidance in any sort of reliable manner!

Not only can one Baha'i not dictate to another based on her visions what must happen, but Shoghi Effendi specifially warned (when asked) that such visions aren't necessarily reliable, and that God reveals His teachings to us through the Manifestations' direct teachings and writings, NOT through visions and spells!

Regards,

Bruce

smkolins · 10-16-2005, 05:08 AM

A related question is however moved and guided and individual becomes (and the Baha'i standard for this is quite high) then what? The exact situation isn't clear, but the authority of the affirmed scripture remains, and the the authority of the House of Justice is independent of such concerns. They might invite this person to assist, or give them a position in relation to the Faith or they may do nothing. But the Faith does not run on a cult of personality - all its central institutions are matters of collectives of individuals making group decisions. There have been situations where a dominant personality was among them and strongly affected what happened. But the end result was a more experienced insitution and the individual's contribution ended one way or another (sometimes they imploded and sometimes they retired naturally and sometimes they passed away.)