A strange thing happened

[Dondi]

Next chapter:

Our original intention for our trip to PI was to see my wife's father, presumably before he passed on. (At this writing, he's as healthy as a bull and his latest checkup shows normal heartbeat and blood pressure, pretty much a good bill of health, thank God). But since Papang was healthy, we were now better able to enjoy our visit as a regular vacation.

During the first part of the week, we met with the Pastor of the local Baptist church, which has had a long history dating back to the 1950s, in which my wife’s family was one of the founding families (Baptist churches are a bit of a rarity, owning to the fact that the Philippines are about 95% Catholic.) Then I got a shocker when that Pastor told me he wanted me to preach the next Sunday. Me, preach? HA! I’m just a layman. I’ve never step behind a pulpit before. I’ve taught Sunday school classes and conducted Bible studies, but preach? Well, I tried to tell the Pastor that I wasn’t really qualified to preach, but he insisted. So out of respect, I took to the challenge. But I must say I felt an awesome responsibility on my shoulders. I do not take lightly the preaching of the Word of God and prayed that I might rightly divide the word of truth. I sought God for the right message during the week.

Since I didn't know a lot of Tagalog (the official language of the Philippines), I often felt left out of the adult conversation. So I ended up hanging mostly out with my wife's nephew and nieces. Well, I guess they are my nephews and nieces as well, since I married into the family. But anyway, they all spoke fairly good English and I got to talking with them and playing cards and chess. One day, we were stuck sitting around the house due to a typhoon and the kids were sitting on the couch and they began to sing Bible songs in English. So I asked them if they learned them in Sunday school, which they replied yes. Then my wife and I taught them some more Bible songs, most notably “Noah’s Arky (Rise and Shine)”. The song basically goes through the story of Noah. But when I asked the children if they heard of Noah, I was surprised that they said no. So I conducted a little Bible study right then and there. Oh, I tell you, these kids just ate it up! They wanted a Bible study most every day. And then they wanted to learn more Bible songs. And I had them memorize several verses, notably John 3:16 and Romans 6:23. Boy, you should have seen then grab the Bibles we brought with us and sit down to memorize those scriptures. They had such a hunger for the Word. But from these verses I had to explain the Gospel to them, for they hadn’t really heard it (What were these children learning in Sunday school, anyway?).

Another song popped in my head, namely “Seek Ye First”, which led me to make the theme of my sermon, based on Matthew 6:33. So I taught the kids the song and told them they will sing it Sunday morning, along with citing the memory verses, before my sermon. They were hesitant, but I assured them they could do it, and not to be embarrassed to go up.

Since the Bible study with the my nephews and nieces were doing so well, we decided to have another Bible study during a family reunion that was planned to commemorate the death of my wife’s mother, who died on August 11, 1986. Every year, my wife’s family gathers together to remember her, and is the biggest gathering of relatives during the year. Weird that we happened to be there just at that time. Coincidence maybe? At any rate, we had 80 kinfolk show up. I gave a Gospel message and as a result, 12 children (virtually all my bible study lids) and 1 adult (my wife’s sister-in-law) received Christ as Savior. Praise God!

More to come….

[cavalier]

Just read your original post. I'm not sure what I think about it, but am very pleased you posted it, and that I read it.

[flowperson]

Dondi...IMHO you are being "called" to do something. Only G-d knows what that might be...and only you can discover what it might be by especially looking into the "weird coincidences" that seem to be popping up in your life. And trust me, when it comes to this sort of stuff...there are no coincidences.
Just my two cents.

flow....

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Dondi...IMHO you are being "called" to do something. Only G-d knows what that might be...and only you can discover what it might be by especially looking into the "weird coincidences" that seem to be popping up in your life. And trust me, when it comes to this sort of stuff...there are no coincidences.
Just my two cents.

flow....

I do get that "CLICK" feeling. Like a lock whose tumblers are lining up as the key is being pushed in. Seems things are falling into play in most pecular ways.

A caveat to my story: While I was there in PI, it just so happened there was older retired U.S. Navy 20-year veteran (a Filipino) in the same town, who used to be classmates with my brother-in-law. And he heard that I was there and that I was a fellow retired U.S. Navy 20-year veteran as well, and so he came to visit me. (Now you first have to understand that this village was small enough that you'd probably would expect too many U.S. citizens to reside here, let alone Navy vets. Most vets if they do retire in PI usually are in Manilla or around Olongapo/Subic Bay area or some other highly populated area. So, to have a U.S. Navy vet in the same village is rare).

Now let me back up a little and say that my wife and I had previously discussed the possibility of retiring to the Philippines, perhaps after the kids had finished school. But I was under the impression that if I was a U.S. citizen, I would have to return to the U.S. every six months and then come back to PI. That I would have to cycle back and forth between the two like that. (I wasn't that up on immigration laws).

But when I talked to this fellow that visited me, he told me that I could get a permanent resident visa in PI for a five year period and not have to travel back to the States at all. And I could still retain my U.S. citizenship. And he showed the fairly simple process in obtaining one and offered whatever assistance I needed should I chose to apply for it.

So I am asking myself why I am meeting people who would just happen to be the right people I need. I, too, am wondering if I'm being "called" to the Philippines somehow, perhaps as a missionary or some such.

[Dondi]

“But seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.” – Matthew 6:33

I believed that God led me to choose “Seek Ye First” due to the fact that I was to preach before a poor fishing village. Most of my brothers-in-law are fishermen, who spend long hours day and night in banca boats trying to catch fish off the coast of the village. It’s hard during the rainy season and the typhoons, for the seas are too rough to ride and the normally clear waters too murky to see the fish. Often they are not able to fish, or when they do, they net little. Still, there is always rice. As God provides, my wife and I try to help them financially. But it is my firm belief that if we would seek the Kingdom of God first, and His righteousness through Christ, then He will provide for all our needs. I’d like to see my brothers-in-law come to church more often. More importantly, I would they see for themselves the mercy and greatness of God, if they only learn to trust Him. But that Sunday, after the sermon, I saw three people get saved, and many more make a commitment to put God first in their lives.
I did go fishing with two of my brothers-in-law, for I wanted to experience for myself what how they fish. So one clear day we set out in two banca boats, one with a large net, one without, and rode out to the open sea. I was in constant prayer for a good catch that day, though one of my brothers-in-law was not so optimistic. The waters were still murky after the recent storm. They usually spot fish by diving under, but now they had to fish blind. But I was determined to pray for a good day of fishing, hoping God would honor my prayer to exceed my brothers-in-law‘s expectations. I really wanted to show them that my sermon wasn’t just talk. We stopped in an area about 15 kms out, the other boat floating some distance away. The boat I was in trailed a long line that had small water bottles tied as certain intervals along the line. The bottles kept the line afloat, but I think they must have had bait along the line also, for the boat made a wide slow circle to attract the fish. When it was felt the bait was doing its task, we veered over to the other banca boat and let out our net over to them. We separated from the other boat again, letting the net out in a huge circle coming back around to the other side, so that the net would encompass a large area. The net floated on the waters by buoys attached at certain intervals along the net. Once the circle was completed, divers swam to the middle of the circle to scared the fish outward to catch them into the net. Then the net was slowly drawn in. I really didn’t do much but pray.

I kept remembering the time the disciples were fishing and having a dismal day, and Jesus called out to them to cast their net in a certain manner. But how the disciples were skeptical of Jesus for they had been fishing all night. Yet they obeyed and caught so much fish that their nets could hardly bear it. So I prayed for a similar thing to happen, trying hard not to waver in faith.

Well, we didn’t strain any nets with an overabundance of fish, but we did net than they had expected to get, considering the blind circumstances, which I thank God for being faithful. So we headed back to the beach and had a great grillout.

Sometime later, my niece (a daughter of one of the brothers-in-law I went fishing with) came up to me and told me that her father had been reading the Bible every night. Maybe I'm starting to reaching them...

Still more.....

[wil]

Originally Posted by Dondi

... I really didn’t do much but pray.

I kept remembering the time the disciples were fishing and having a dismal day, and Jesus called out to them to cast their net in a certain manner.

lol... you of all people... "didn't do much but pray." sometimes that is the most you can do!

cast your net on the right(eous) side of the boat!

nets being a method of capturing and retaining spirit, fish being ideas, food for thought, water the ethers of manifest ion, and boats a tool to cross obstacles...

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

lol... you of all people... "didn't do much but pray." sometimes that is the most you can do!

cast your net on the right(eous) side of the boat!

nets being a method of capturing and retaining spirit, fish being ideas, food for thought, water the ethers of manifest ion, and boats a tool to cross obstacles...

Lol...yeah, you are so right.

I wanted to catch more than fish, ya know. (Matthew 4:19)

[dauer]

wil,

But how can we discard our lense? Is it not truth with a big T that he feels the tusk (or the sea is ice) and he feels the the tail ( the sea supplies), and he feels the trunk (the sea is a resort)?

I'm not talking about discarding the lens. I embrace my lens. I'm just addressing one who would claim that the lens is the way things really are. Not only are they all only feeling a part of the elephant, but even if they felt the whole thing, they're still blind. THere's still a huge chunk of perception that's missing. Lenses by definition distort light. They may make something big that's small, something small that's big, cause unusual contortions and anomalies, change the color. Some lenses are even created to overlay a particular design that doesn't exist. I had a pair of joke glasses when I was little. Whenever they picked up light it would look like a magen david coming from the place that the light emanated.

Is it not ok and TRUTH that we only have part of the equation and can't we be satisfied with that if we don't have the opportunity to get to the other part of the elephant?

I don't think you're disagreeing with me in these sentences, just misunderstanding. I agree with you that, at least at this stage of the game, we don't really have a way to verify truth even if we do have it. I'm not addressing that. It's one thing to claim the truth is we don't have the whole truth. It's quite another to claim that we do. And I'm all for being satisfied. I couldn't be satisfied unless I both embraced my experience without judgement and rationally engaged it at another time.

Is G!d choosing not to smile on the farmer when I get dry days on my vacation?

And that's where I'm saying the lens comes in. How can we know one way or another? How can we even say G!d exists? And I hope you were aware before addressing me with your question that I'm an agnostic, and if you weren't aware, at least now you are.

Do I think the farmer should devalue his experience because it may not be true? No. Do I think we should ignore that which is subjective? No. Do I think it would be healthy to recognize that it may not be the whole truth or that it may be a distortion of the truth? Yes, and if the farmer decides to have faith that it's actually true, whatever works for him.

Dondi,

Dauer,

You comments are duly noted. Logic is a perception also, no? What may seem logical to one, may not be logical to another.

Well, as a matter of definitions I'd say that actual logic is not a perception. Something may appear logical that is not. Something may appear illogical that is logical. And systems of logic may disagree in that they are really manmade structures based on presupposed axiomatic assumptions. But if you mean that rational thinking is also a type of perception I agree with you. It is my tendency to use rational thinking as a counter to direct experience and direct experience as a counter to rational thinking in my own way of coming to terms with things, in that rather than pursuing answers I usually try to pursue ambiguity. Unfortunately, as I think I've mentioned before, in a given conversation often only one side of that equation will be visible. But I would be just as quick to counter an assertion by a reductionist materialist that seemed particularly absolute. I'm not really trying to assert another truth so much as raise into question the whole idea that we can verify we've found truth at all, even if it is possible that we have it. And I suppose that in reality that is an attempt to assert another truth, just one that happens to view things on perhaps even radically relativistic terms.

Dauer

[Caimanson]

Hello Dondi,
This is interesting for me. When I read your testimony I realised I didn't care what the story had to say about your faith, it didn't make the message of christianity real for me.
I felt like one of those unbelievers that you get no response of, regardless of what you say to them. Five years ago I may have cheered your story, now it doesn't do anything for me.
It's not that I think your account is not true, it's more an indifference to the meaning you give to your facts.

The same person at a different point in time has a completely different take on the facts. The only thing I can think of is how subjectivity gives meaning to our experience.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

Hello Dondi,
This is interesting for me. When I read your testimony I realised I didn't care what the story had to say about your faith, it didn't make the message of christianity real for me.
I felt like one of those unbelievers that you get no response of, regardless of what you say to them. Five years ago I may have cheered your story, now it doesn't do anything for me.
It's not that I think your account is not true, it's more an indifference to the meaning you give to your facts.

The same person at a different point in time has a completely different take on the facts. The only thing I can think of is how subjectivity gives meaning to our experience.

That's fine, Caimanson. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just relating my own experiences. May I ask what your take is? Would it have made a difference if it were from a Jewish, Islamic, or Buddhist perspective?

[Caimanson]

Originally Posted by Dondi

That's fine, Caimanson. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just relating my own experiences. May I ask what your take is?

Well I don't have a strong take on it, just feels more like indiference.
I suppose in the back of my mind there is an element of "been there, done that" kind of feel, so I don't even have to probe the meaning of your accounts because I already have my own experiential understanding of them. Not that I was in your shoes, but that I have done and experienced similar things and beliefs.

In the past I ascribed a value to certain experiences because my perception of the events fitted very well with my worldview. The difference is that I have now moved away from that worldview, I am not the same person anymore so I perceive some elements of my past in a very different way.

Just imagine if in the future your beliefs were very different to what they are now, wouldn't you interpret your own story in a very different way?

Would it have made a difference if it were from a Jewish, Islamic, or Buddhist perspective?

I relate to the evangelical elements of your story, so if you had a different religious perspective with the same elements then my reaction would have been similar.

[Dondi]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is if you moved to a different worldview, and hence different experiences now, do you see anything of the sort of thing happening to you now? Not of an evangelistic sort, but you know, things clicking or seemingly coming together? Or have you completely stopped looking for it?

I don't want to get too personal, if you don't feel like discussing such, but since you mentioned "been there, done that" I am curious as to how that view changed or how you don't perceive it anymore. Was it something catastrophic, or was it a gradual thing?

[Caimanson]

Originally Posted by Dondi

I guess what I'm trying to get at is if you moved to a different worldview, and hence different experiences now, do you see anything of the sort of thing happening to you now? Not of an evangelistic sort, but you know, things clicking or seemingly coming together? Or have you completely stopped looking for it?

Well, things aren't happening because I'm not looking for them that much, and I'm not interpreting things out of the ordinary.
And that is the beauty of it, no need to strive for something to happen or for things to change in a certain way. It feels like freedom.

I don't want to get too personal, if you don't feel like discussing such, but since you mentioned "been there, done that" I am curious as to how that view changed or how you don't perceive it anymore. Was it something catastrophic, or was it a gradual thing?

I stopped a while ago, it was a gradual thing, as soon as I got rid of the fear and manipulation, belief vanished (no need for it) and then it was a matter of time till I came back to my senses, and one day I realised I wasn't a christian anymore.
In a way I didn't change that much, I just reverted to who I was before, whom I've always been.

[wil]

As was described earlier we can stack up a series of coincidences and say what are the odds of that? Or we can contemplate synchronicity and how the universe aligned to teach us this lesson or open our eyes to a new view. Or we can see a miracle right in front of us...and choose to praise our creator or deny that anything of merit occurred. Choice. Perspective.

What would you think of this situation if you were in my shoes?

You'd think the same thing I thought if you were in my shoes, had my life experiences, and saw it from my angle...and vice versa.

Sometimes we set the expectation to high, and then are disappointed. Sometimes we set it to low and can't see or understand what just happened. It is life, and you might like brussel sprouts...and I might not.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Caimanson

Well, things aren't happening because I'm not looking for them that much, and I'm not interpreting things out of the ordinary.
And that is the beauty of it, no need to strive for something to happen or for things to change in a certain way. It feels like freedom.

Yet the thing about my experiences is that I wasn't striving for things to happen, none of it was really planned. I might have had a disposition for certain expectations, but it wasn't like I was trying to "force" anything. I sorta just went with the flow.

I stopped a while ago, it was a gradual thing, as soon as I got rid of the fear and manipulation, belief vanished (no need for it) and then it was a matter of time till I came back to my senses, and one day I realised I wasn't a christian anymore.
In a way I didn't change that much, I just reverted to who I was before, whom I've always been.

Maybe you tried too hard to be a Christian. I know what you mean by fear and manipulation. Some churches try to make cookie cuter christians out of folks, but it just doesn't work. Jesus treated people at the individual level. And I think you are right in just being true to yourself. You ought not be pressured into something that isn't you.

On the other hand, I hope at least that you have a mind that will explore possibilities. You never know what you might find.