A rhetorical question

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards all!

Special nod to Thomas!

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I hope that there’s more than two sides to this fence. I’m not a Catholic, clearly I don’t condone child abuse and if this has happened and then the perpetrators protected from justice by the Catholic Church, then I don’t belong on that side of the fence.

However if the people on the other side of the fence are ones who declare their hope of someone being assassinated, burnt to death or just generally dead sooner rather than later, instead of, say, “brought to justice” (if that is appropriate) then I don’t want to be on that side of the fence either.

In general terms I am going with snoopy on this. I have avoided this discussion and it seems by doing so I have missed a lot of crossed sabres. I have avoided this because I am not familiar with it, I have not heard the "news" (which is usually scandalized for the sake of increasing readership anyway). So I can claim a legitimate, if intentional, ignorance on the subject. Frankly, it is a battle of words I prefer not to enter.

However, lest my silence be interpreted as agreement, or worse, apathy, (thank you Luna for the reminder), I feel that I should make my voice heard.

This is a classic example of why I prefer to walk my walk as a solo. I have nothing against this Pope personally...I could care less what he or any other person thinks of me. I have only One to answer to, and it is not the Pope. It is not the Dalai Lama. It is not an Imam, or a Rabbi, or a Preacher/Priest/Reverend. I have only to answer to G-d, and G-d alone. I may learn from any of these, or none. But I answer to no human, and they do not answer to me.

Thomas, I love you as a brother. Your path is suitable for you. You are not beholding to my opinion in your choice of path. No other is beholding to you in their choice of path. You see your path as "superior," rightly so, for you. I do not see your path as superior to mine, else I would be following the incorrect path, no? Yet my heart and my spirit are quite content that my walk is quite suitable for me.

Others are free to disagree...they do not walk your path, they do not stand in your shoes. They each must walk their own path, and stand in shoes that are proper for them, the only caveat being that these shoes and paths must ultimately be acceptable to G-d. (There are paths and shoes that are not acceptable, but I will not address that now)

I understand how the disagreements of others can become virulent and emotional, humans are humans after all, none of us are perfect. It can be difficult to hold one's ground under withering fire. Yet, it is also under fire that gold is separated from dross. I have had my beliefs challenged before, and I have challenged others' beliefs before. Even though in the moment I might take something personally, after a time I realize it is not me that is challenged so much as my beliefs...and where I am strong I hold my ground, and where I am weak I seek reassurance and reinforcement from He who gives willingly to those who lean themselves towards Him.

I would hate to see you leave because of challenge, Thomas, I sincerely thought you to be a bigger man than that. You have been a staunch defender of Christianity in general around here, no less specifically of Catholism, and I for one find your input invaluable. Even when I disagree.

Having spoken my peace, I do not wish personally to engage in any angry rhetoric on either side. If it is true that some are so...unthinking? uncaring?...as to stoop to the level of wishing a person dead or worse, this tells me such people are overloaded with emotion and are not thinking straight. Such people are "just as" intolerant as those they point finger at, and only seek excuse to vent their intolerance.

If it is true, that this current Pope is now attempting to harden the hearts and minds of the Catholic Institution, it is my opinion he is doing Catholics and non-Catholics all a great disservice. Nevertheless, I do not stand in his shoes. Such is a hard, command decision that thankfully I am not responsible to make. But it matters not to me in the end what he declares, it is not incumbent upon me...that is, until someone busts down my front door in this Pope's name, and then all pleasantries of tolerance are off...if it ever comes to this.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Francis King!

Originally Posted by Francis king

there is a lot less ppl on your side of the fence than mine.

Since when did faith or spirituality ever become a numbers game? Is this about mob rules? The end justifies the means? Majority rule?

Should everyone convert to Buddhism solely because it has the most adherents in the world? (presuming on my part that it does)

Should everyone become Chinese because China is the most populous country? Should everyone speak, read and write Chinese because it is the most common language?

Should everyone be mandated to be heterosexual because that is the majority sexuality? Or maybe everyone should be female because the female gender is the most common?

Maybe cockroaches should rule the world because there are more of them than humans?

Do you see yet the error in your reasoning?

I'm sure glad that foresighted people can see beyond the status quo, and mob rules. Sometimes it only takes one to start a revolution that benefits all others. Someone with enough gonads to go against the grain of the mob.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Thomas,

I have tremendous admiration and respect for you. You have the stones to stand up and take the hit for saying what you believe, you have the ability to say what you're thinking. You have been a tremendously important resource for me. My brother Mark held you in the highest esteem, and often, very often spoke of the positive influence of your words on his understanding, and his evolution toward being able to put away the anti-Catholic programming we were both subjected to as children. We talked about some things you had written the night he passed. We shared our common appreciation of you.

You do what you need to do, but you're not leaving here before I say how I feel. I'm crying brother. I don't want you to go. Please don't go.

Chris

[Thomas]

Whew! A bit of a week.

The lesson for me in all this, as well as listening to others, is to listen to oneself.

I stand here as a self-declared Catholic, and as a traditionalist, although I hope not (as the term invariably implies) one with right-wing sympathies.

So if I'm going to do that, I should be, and usually am, happy to take the blows. If you can't stand the heat, as someone said, and I am a Gael after all, we love nothing better than standing up for lost causes and hopeless cases, God Lord, we've defended the English for long enough!

+++

If you let something 'in', the risk is always of infection. The metabolism goes into self-defence — heightened temperature and fever being the symptoms — the body is at war with itself.

I have been too quick to answer, too slow to check myself, too slow to pick up on the signals — maudlin sentimentalism and/or callous cynicism both being sicknesses of the heart — and both of which snouted their way in, the former towards myself, the latter towards my brothers and sisters here.

Steps have been taken. I might not be able to put the Catholic Church to rights (you'll have to wait for my papacy for that), but I can put my own house in order. A few blows got under my guard, the old knees wobbled, but now I have rallied to the colours of my calling (Quahom will know what I'm blethering about), found my footing, and affirmed myself in what might actually turn out to be my vocation.

So having kicked this whole thing off, let me declare this particular game of 'pass the parcel' stops right here. With your collective agreement and hopefully a sigh of relief, I have the parcel, and I intend to just let it go. "No names," as the saying goes, "no Pack Drill."

And a last big thank you to all for your support and understanding ... you could just as easily have said, "well, f**k off then... "

(but if someone says 'group hug', I'll puke)

Thomas

[Francis king]

(small singular yet well intentioned hug)

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Thomas

(but if someone says 'group hug', I'll puke)

Too late!

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Francis king

(small singular yet well intentioned hug)

Oh, they're different ... they're l-o-v-e-l-y ...!

Dondi ... gedahdavit! ... oops, yes, you beat me to it! OK, just for you mind, and just this once but don't let on, or we'll all start doing it.



Thomas

[wil]

Originally Posted by Thomas

(but if someone says 'group hug', I'll puke)

Originally Posted by Francis king

(small singular yet well intentioned hug)

Now we've all been in a number of group hugs and they all have left me lacking... I prefer the singular hugs...

Now if someone were to puke in a group hug...oh my

Angel walks...that is what we need a nice long angel walk...

[InLove]

Hi Thomas (and all)--

I've been out of the loop on the boards lately except for keeping up with the birthdays and a few posts in the lounge. I did not realize what was happening on these recent threads, or I might have piped in. Actually, I thought I had been a good defender of Catholics all along, but I guess I didn't do a very good job. Maybe it is because I just don't know enough about it. But when you said you were the only voice here doing that, I had to wonder. You said you wondered if anyone bothered to read the article. I did. I imagine quite a few others did, too. Anyway, maybe you missed the multiple times I have spoken up in the past? Just checking....

I sure hope you are going to hang around. I am still figuring all this out. In fact, the first few questions I asked when I joined CR had to do with busting some myths about the Catholic faith (just ask our friend Josh--he knows).

That said, I trust that God understands about folks like me. I was raised in a Protestant tradition that closed the Communion to "outsiders" too. I have thought long and hard about this--I have just never been comfortable with that idea. I have seen the faces, though, from my piano bench where the Spirit of Our Lord was very much in that quiet and worshipful music. And the faces of the people (my own mother included) were different than they were any other time. Christ's presence was there in the bread and "wine".

Anyway, I know that I am addressing a subject from another thread, but I can't go back and respond on all of them. But there is no need for you to explain further about the subject I have just brought up (at least not to me, as I have read your posts and I understand the position you hold.) As you know, I can't exactly keep up very well right now. But I love you, and you know it, and if you leave, there will be a void that only Thomas can fill. I may not always agree with you about everything, and much of the time I just don't quite understand, but I respect your devotion to Tradition with a capital "T". And one must do what one is called to do. That much I get.

So, I hope I have not gone and disrupted things again, but I was compelled to add my thoughts here, belated as they are, perhaps. It looks as if you may hang around? I hope so. Anyway, know this--if you don't, I will find you....

InPeace,
InLove

[Dondi]

So, I hope I have not gone and disrupted things again, but I was compelled to add my thoughts here, belated as they are, perhaps. It looks as if you may hang around? I hope so. Anyway, know this--if you don't, I will find you....

Stalker!

[InLove]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[Thomas]

Well, as I've just popped what might be infammatory posts into 'Politics and Society' and thus waived all rights to claiming sanctuary cos I'm Cat'lick, looks like I'll be around for a while yet, and I was ... oh, hang on, the doorbell's just gone...

(cue ominous echo of retreating footsteps, rising cresendo of slasher-movie type 'Don't open the door you fool!' music ... )

[Muslimwoman]

as salaam aleykum

Well I am jolly pleased we are all friends again, phew. I am not allowed to do group hugs (you know the modest, touching strangers thing) so can I just add a polite smile and warm fluffy tummy feeling.

Glad to see you have had your mental rest Thomas and have returned to "fight them on the beaches". Now go get em.

Salaam