"a" or "the" true religion

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by william

Another possibility


In my experience, The Greater Community Way of Knowledge is a true religion. True, in my eyes, in that it validates what my heart knows as true, and appears to be free of hypocracy or worldly motives. Rather than requiring faith in a guru or higher power, it has developed within me the ability to discern truth and to value the Spiritual Intelligence within me.

I'm sure there are other paths, religions, that are true. But this is the one for me. It calls to me most deeply.

I looked up the website and did some amount of reading.

Summers claims to have contacts with beings outside our planet who are warning us to prepare for resistance to hostile beings from also outer space that will do us harm.

That is the impression I obtained from my reading.

And he seems to be interested in people buying his books, even though he does not say so explicitly.

True to my impression with religion talk, I met repetitious generalities which I might describe as religious motherhood statements.

Dear William, if you are reading my post, and you are a member of this community or follower of Summers, please tell me what you do aside from the observance of the common morality of civilized nations, like not killing, not stealing, not sleeping with the neighbor's wife.

Do you have some special day which like Christians and Muslims, you spend more hours for your religion, as in some kind of prayer and worship of a deity?

Thanks for your information.

Susma Rio Sep aka Pachomius2000

[ISFP]

hey, all

i'm wary of labeling my own faith (or any faith) as "true" for a couple of reasons. firstly, i've been in the position of firmly believing that a belief system i held dear was "true" primarily because i adhered to and identified with it, and because it completed me spiritually.

if those are the requirements for a religion to be "true", we'll have literally billions of people laying claim not only to the religious system their beliefs fall into, but their own personal manner of understanding that religion.

secondly, it's very possible that a belief system one had formerly identified with, adhered to, and derived spiritual strength from can lose its appeal for the individual over time (for a number of reasons). what then? is the faith still "true" if it no longer rings true for the individual?

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by ISFP

hey, all

i'm wary of labeling my own faith (or any faith) as "true" for a couple of reasons. firstly, i've been in the position of firmly believing that a belief system i held dear was "true" primarily because i adhered to and identified with it, and because it completed me spiritually.

if those are the requirements for a religion to be "true", we'll have literally billions of people laying claim not only to the religious system their beliefs fall into, but their own personal manner of understanding that religion.

secondly, it's very possible that a belief system one had formerly identified with, adhered to, and derived spiritual strength from can lose its appeal for the individual over time (for a number of reasons). what then? is the faith still "true" if it no longer rings true for the individual?

I agree completely with your first two paragraphs, namely, a true religion is the one that satisfies you spiritually, and there can be many a true religion, even billions in the history of mankind.

The implication is that religion should be like cuisine, couture, and hairdo: there is a substratum of necessity but the expression of and the method of satisfaction is for every sensible person and everyone should be, a matter of personal choice on self-impressions.

About your third paragraph, I think you have brought up a concern which is not what I might call a legitimate transit, meaning what is true in physics is not to be transferred to, namely, the principle, to religion.

Thus gravity is true in all instances of physical life, so that should you wish that you could fly and jumped off the window of a tall building, gravity would guarantee a speedy and certain departure to the next realm of existence if any.

But not so in religion, because as I said above, it is like cuisine, couture, and hairdo, you can change your food recipes, your garment styles, and your haircuts, just make sure that your food is not poisonous, your clothing does not so much as stir up allergenic reactions in you, and don't destroy your hair glands with any cut of hair.

Pachomius2000

[ISFP]

hey Susma Rio Sep

you're right, the last paragraph was kinda jargony. though i didn't mean to go into especially indepth reasoning.

what i meant (some what cynically), is that once someone has lost faith in something that they once upheld as a truth, not going by the definition of truth from the first two paragraphs, it looks rather bad for that former truth.

if one is going to argue that "to be true, it must appeal to all people", that is.

[william]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

thank you for the post and welcome to the forum.
in Vedic thought, the Way of Knowledge is called Yoga Jnaana. traditonally, this yoga would be practiced in conjunction with Karma Yoga (the Way of Works) and Bhakti Yoga (the Way of Devotion) to form the full form of the yogic practice as substantially described in the Vedas.

I appreciate the welcome.

The GC Way of Knowledge, unfortunately for comparative-religion conversations, uses the term Knowledge quite differently than the general English usage. Knowledge in the GCWK could be seen as the Quaker "Light of God within", sometimes manifesting itself as inexplicable, profound, certain knowing.

In my limited understanding of the Yogas, I would consider each of them to be a true Way of Knowledge, in that they each deepen that relationship with the Divine, through devotion, contemplation, or contribution/work (if I may reduce them so starkly).

The Greater Community Way of Knowledge, as I experience it, pursues relationship with the Divine through all three of those channels: humbling stillness meditation and gratitude practices; focused contemplation; and finding and fulfilling one's God-given purpose.

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

I looked up the website and did some amount of reading.
Summers claims to have contacts with beings outside our planet who are warning us to prepare for resistance to hostile beings from also outer space that will do us harm.
That is the impression I obtained from my reading.
And he seems to be interested in people buying his books, even though he does not say so explicitly.
True to my impression with religion talk, I met repetitious generalities which I might describe as religious motherhood statements.
Dear William, if you are reading my post, and you are a member of this community or follower of Summers, please tell me what you do aside from the observance of the common morality of civilized nations, like not killing, not stealing, not sleeping with the neighbor's wife.
Do you have some special day which like Christians and Muslims, you spend more hours for your religion, as in some kind of prayer and worship of a deity?
Thanks for your information.

It saddens me that the GCWK website often leaves the impression of hawking books. I appreciate the feedback and I hope to do what I can to change that impression, as the website evolves.

The fundamental practices of the Greater Community Way of Knowledge are found within the book Steps to Knowledge. In a way, all of the theology and doctrine and guidance are secondary. They are just helpful pointers towards that connection with Knowledge (I mean God or Spirit).

The first three weeks of Steps to Knowledge are right there on the site. In my own practice, I am studying those first twenty-one steps again now, and this time around I'm finding them deep and microcosmic of the whole teaching.

The organization that promotes the teaching only sells the books in order to try to recoup a small percentage of the printing costs, and more importantly to keep them in the book trade, distributed. There's surely no profit or even a full recooping.

Steps to Knowledge practices include daily stillness meditation, focused contemplation and examination of the mind's contents. A primary aim of the curriculum is discovering and living the answer to the question "Why am I here?" The answer seems not to be an answer at all but a living, abiding experience that inspires work, service, contribution.

So for me studying the Greater Community Way of Knowledge was initiated by a sense that I have a purpose, mission, or destiny in this life that I need to know and live, in order to be truly happy. Uncovering that has been a matter of finding what of the world's many needs has my name on it. Like is it refugee aid, is it environmental sustainability, is it nonviolence, is it hunger, poverty, disease: where must I serve, where is my calling?

Having found the general direction of my calling, these days spiritual advancement feels like it is about deepening my connection to the Source, to that calling and those with whom I must work, and unifying the disparate parts of my personal mind, and always asking what must I do, and how, and what's next? This is what the GCWK is about; not enlightenment, or living by tenets, but connection, relationship, and contribution.

Whew, that's a lot of typing. I hope I addressed your question, Susma, and without preaching.

[PersonaNonGrata]

Thank you really very much Susma there are really a lot to read there, will brighten one or sevral of my lazy and hunger days i guess,

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

I am glad to meet an ethnic Muslim, a native Turk at that.



Tell me, did you attend a madrasah, meaning a religious school? Or what do you call such a school in your country.

MAdrasah=Medrese in Turkish so im quite familiar with that word. But madrasahs are no longer functioning in turkey since 1920s, while turkey declared itself as a secular repuclic country. I have attend to a mosque’s summer course, for 2 semesters, I was nearly about to learn Arabic letters (you have to memorize some prayers first), to read quran in its original form but HOdja spank my face so dad didn’t let me to go there, and I didn’t..

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

I am curious about your education, you being I think maybe the only Muslim in this forum.

I am too about yours since I thought you are Filipinos ?

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

You know English, which I think is not a skill common among your countrymen, maybe also French and German?

You think wrong Susma, take a visit to here my friend, even they cant speak Français ou Allemande, they will die to tell you smthngs which is quite funny to watch ))

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Tell me, your native tongue is Turkish, like English is the native tongue of natives in England?

Yes, benim ana dilim Turkce dostum and yours?

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Did you have to learn Arabic in school, and how is it different in script from your mother tongue of Turkish?

Mosques seem to be the only way to learn Arabic, since no one is interested in speaking that language in Turkey there are no special courses (or very(2) few in numbers)

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

PS Did I promise you "The Cloud of Unknowing", or is it "The Imitation of Christ"?

The imitation of Christ .

[maggie2]

I love what Erynn said: "Personally, I think there are a lot of religions that carry truths (without a capital T) but that nonoe of them are The Truth". That is so well said.

Think about this. Let's say you live in New York and you want to travel to Washington D.C. in a vehicle. You could probably choose from several hundred different routes to get there and still end up in Washington D.C. Some roads may be better paved, some may be more scenic, some may be more congested, but they all lead to Washington D.C.

Are any of those roads better than the other? That depends. If you want to see lovely scenery, then choose the scenic route. If you want to avoid traffic, choose a back road that is less congested. Is any one route better than the other? Probably not, just different.

I think religion is like that. Each religion has some truth but is not The Truth. And they all offer something.

I understand the fear that you might be on the wrong track. Many years back I belonged to a fundamentalist group and I was told by the leader that I was going to hell because I didn't get down on my knees and repent before her over something stupid. I had been really indoctrinated into this group and yet I knew that I needed to get out of it.

Removing myself from this Christian cult (and I use those words together purposly) was horrible. When someone has brainwashed you to believe that they have the answers it is scary to go against their thinking. I remember thinking; "What if they're right and I'm wrong?" "What if I really am going to hell?" Let me tell you, coming to terms with that kind of stuff takes courage, time and effort but in the end it is healthy to get beyond it.

Now I would not allow anyone else to tell me what to believe and how to conduct myself. My faith is personal between me and the Creator and I trust my own inner wisdom more than any preacher or guru. That doesn't mean I can't or don't learn from others, because I do. However, I take everything I read and hear and think about it and don't just accept it on faith. Then I decide whether to incorporate what I've heard or seen into my beliefs.

Don't be afraid that you will miss the boat. You won't. Find what is true and right for you. Be open to new ideas and wisdom and adapt your beliefs to new insights. The Divine will bless you and you will be safe. Good luck on your journey and enjoy the ride.

[lunamoth]

Welcome to CR, Maggie. I enjoyed your post--I have also been thinking lately about all the roads leading to God, and how some may be rigidly mapped out and with lots of signs while others require 4-wheel drive and a good sense of direction.

[Joshua]

'

In this life, I've seen hundreds of religions. Many claim to be 'the Truth.' Some claim that there is no truth, which is stupid. There MUST be truth out there...

That is the driving force behind the human race: to seek out and understand things as they REALLY are.

Don't believe those who say that there is no truth, or that we cannot understand the truth, or that it's not there for us to know. IT's just not so.

If some claim to not know things but they're comfortable, they're not where a truth-seeker wants to be. Any one who's comfortable must have stopped to progress in their understanding of truth. I don't ever want to stagnate.

When you find a religion that is not dead, but claims to be a living, vibrant religion that is constantly open to the divine, learning from divinity, THAT is where you want to be.

Test it; run-out that thread, learning as much as you can, and if it doesn't ever seem to end, that is the TRUE religion; one that preaches and teaches and offers growth and learning of truth that is just as eternal and limitless as our own spirits and intelligence can stretch; into the infinities.

A religion that claims to have everything completely understood is false. One that claims that we cannot know some things, or puts limits on the human soul, is false.

But the one that claims to be built around the fountain of divinity, the one that has grown and flourished by what they cling to, that is where a truth seeker wants to go, and to study, and to learn from.

I hope that we all can find it. It's where the divine and the human touch.

[ISFP]

Originally Posted by Joshua

It's where the divine and the human touch.

which is, potentially, ever where.

Joshua- have you found the religious system/s that reach out to you, personally? which one (ones)?

[vedic_kings]

The Universal Religion



Here something to think about.

From book Vedantic Meditation: Lighting the Flame of Awareness, By Dr. David Frawley.

True religion is universal and eternal. It is life and truth, existence itself. It is not something that one can join or be excluded from. It cannot be possessed, and those who claim to own it have lost it. The universal religion is the universal consciousness and love. It requires that we live according to the great laws or dharmas of life, the foremost pf which is the unity of all beings.
What can be organized or codified is not the spiriual or life, but matter, which is death. Organized religion is the spiritual petrified, made into another formula or slogan. Therefore, to discover true spirituality we must put the divisions of organized religion behind us. We enter into what is truly spiritual only to the extent that we transcend external identifications of class, creed and nationality. This requires that we perceive the oneness of all as a fact of life. The truly religious mind can identify with all things in the oneness with truth. To the extent that we have an exclusive identity we fall from the spiritual-which is everything and nothing-and become a mere label, proponent or propagandist.
All true religious teaching have their heart in the universal truth that is the life beyond the mind, the intelligence that dwells beyond the division of words and thoughts. But this we must discover for ourselves, through our own meditation practice. It requires the patient labor of awareness for which there is no substitute. To the extent, therefore, that we discover the truth of any spiritual teaching, we are no longer limited to its particular names and forms. We are not bound to its indicators-limited as they are by time, place and person-but see the universal truth that stands in itself.
A spiritual teaching only has value to the extent that it dors become an end-in-itself, that it does not make ultimate any particularities of time, place and person. Religion in the ordinary sense with its dogmas and beliefs is more a hindrance then a help to the search for truth. The real goal is to enter into our true nature beyond the division of thought and belief. True religion leads us to our true Self, not to any person, book or institution as final.

[Saltmeister]

Hello and greetings!!!!

I'd like to say that it's been nice reading all these messages. It's a common saying that "reality is what you make of it."

What religion do I follow? I am a Christian.

Do I believe there is a "one true religion?" Yes.

Now, don't get the wrong idea. I am not saying "Christ is the Truth."

The answer is simple. The Truth depends on how "God" created the universe. The New Age philosophy is that "God is everything." That's the Truth from the New Age point of view. Some say the Truth is inclusive. God knows your thoughts, and whether you know the Truth depends on your way of thinking.

We all come from different walks of life and different realities.

Some might say that anyone who believes their religion is "exclusively the Truth" does not belong to the Truth, and that the those who accept what everybody in the world believes belong to the Truth.

Another point of view is that the Truth is about accepting everybody and being nice to everybody.

At this point I will stop, my aim is not to convert anyone.

However, I think a lot of people have a myth about the Christian faith.

The Christian Gospel is not a social welfare religion. I think the problem is that Christians have been saying that for the last twenty or thirty years.

The Christian Story is about human nature. You probably all know about the story of Adam and how he brought evil into the world by eating the Forbidden Fruit from the Forbidden Tree.

Adam was purely good in the beginning.

One thing about human beings is that their behaviour comes from the instincts of the human nature. Instincts are things we do naturally, like love, patience, kindness, humility, generosity, honesty, hatred, selfishness, arrogance, greed, lust and deceit. These things are the virtues (good instincts) and vices (evil instincts) that come from human nature.

Virtues and vices are the absolutes of good and evil.

We do all these things naturally. Nobody taught us how to love or hate, to be selfish, humble or arrogant, kind, generous, patient, greedy, etc. We learnt it by ourselves.

Rules, laws, doctrines and principles are simply "definitions" of morality. Indoctrinating people with these ideas is an unnatural way of achieving so-called "righteousness."

Adam was purely good in the sense that he only had the "good instincts." It was only after he ate the Forbidden Fruit that he received the "evil instincts." Adam basically chose to be master or his own fate. He decided that he was smart enough to use his "evil instincts" wisely.

The story goes that Christ came to give us a chance to reconsider the idea that "we are smart enough" to use our "evil instincts" wisely. The sacrifice of Christ was a cleansing ritual. It follows that anyone who accepts what Jesus did gives God permission to remove the "dark side" of human nature.

This meant that it was God simply offering us a path back to holiness -- that is, back to the days of the Garden of Eden.

Anyway, I am hoping that certain myths will fall away now. It's not about social welfare and it's not just about "forgiveness." It is a path to peace and holiness with Christ as the Way, the Truth and the Life.

I'm not proselytising. I just want a myth corrected.

It's tough enough being a Christian. People think we're arrogant but it's just our beliefs. Take the Jews, for example. The Jews are God's chosen people and it has nothing to do with how good they are. They were just chosen. Jews know that.

A lot of Christians believe that unbelievers will not certainly go to hell. They will simply be judged. The idea is that believers are those who are surely and securely saved.

Are they right? At least I think so.

I don't think Christianity is really that exclusive. I think somewhere in the NT it talks about how Christ witnessed to the world of the dead soon after being crucified. Thousands of people die without hearing about Christ. Obviously, many of these people "are saved" simply because they were destined to be good people.

I believe the "hell-fire threats" in the New Testament were for "false teachers," for people who taught lies about the Christian faith, not people who followed false religions. You can give false teachings about other religions, but just not the "true religion," assuming Christianity is the Truth. I don't believe they were for unbelievers.

Unbelief is not an abomination to God, it's only when you tell lies about what you know to be the Truth that what you do is an abomination.

There are a lot of churches insisting on believing in doctrines and ideologies and I think this is just rubbish. As I said, our Gospel is about finding Christ's path to peace and holiness, not about "the right doctrines." I would prefer to believe that these people are the "false teachers" that the apostles warned us against.

The Bible leads us to Christ. Christ is the "inner secret" in the Bible. Most of the "doctrinally-minded" people simply lift words out of the Bible and claim that their interpretation is the Truth. They go round and round in circles with their doctrines. They claim everyone else is wrong. They're not really looking for this "secret Christ."

Someone mentioned something before about meditation. A lot of religions have their own kind of meditation, whether it's Buddhism, Yoga or New Age. Some Christians meditate too. It's a different kind of meditation and it's about discovering and interacting with this "inner secret" in the Bible -- Christ.

Unlike, Buddhism, Yoga and New Age, it's not about a super-consciousness but simply about how you use the instincts in your human nature. That's the difference. It's where you reflect on your life and decide the best thing to do for your future and how you will use your "good instincts" in the "holy path" that you follow.

So what do I believe as a Christian? Just follow your instincts. Your good instincts. And also believe that Christ defeats evil.

It's like the Jedis in Star Wars. "Follow your instincts. Use your feelings. Use the Force."

I think of the Christian Gospel as much like a fairy tale adventure. Except that it's real. We are on a spiritual journey to God. The idea is that although there is a lot of evil in this world, we don't have to be afraid because we are the children of God. The Dragon will do anything to make life miserable for us, even to deceive us and make us stop believing in Christ, but with the power of God on our side, we can defeat him.

John 5:4, "Every child of God is able to defeat the world."

No, it's not a social welfare gospel. It's not just about forgiveness. It's about defeating and conquering vice.

Myth corrected.

[lunamoth]

Hello Saltmeister, welcome to CR. Interesting post--I enjoyed reading it.

peace,
lunamoth

[suanni]

Interesting thread with a lot of very interesting responses.

If there was one true religion why has the Divine sent forth so many messengers to guide mankind upon his spiritual path and upon the guidance of the messenger a faith has been established? Has mankind missed the point with each new teacher?

Surely the true religion is the one that the individual feels spiritually fulfilled with.

[Saltmeister]

Truth or Universality?
What is the "True" Religion? Or the "Way of Truth?"

One interesting concept I found in reading not only this thread but also web sites about religion is the idea of "universality."

The idea of "the True Religion" is one idea. The idea of the "Universal Religion" is yet another.

Do the two agree? Are they the same? Are they compatible?

The term "universal" refers to ALL objects/ideas/concepts being contained or grouped together.

For example, the physical universe contains everything physical, everything in the physical plane of existence. Newton's Law, quantum mechanics, matter, Planck's constant, etc.

The universal set of numbers includes complex numbers, real numbers, irrational numbers (transcendental and algebraic), rational numbers, integers and natural numbers.

The Universal Serial Bus is a "universal" or more precisely, "a common way" of connecting computers to peripherals. Just plug it in. The old PS/2 and other ports still exist today. Not so universal, eh?

Likewise, the Universal Religion binds Creation and all human beings into some kind of synergy. Everybody accepts everyone else. Synergy is basically about things working together for a common goal or purpose.

The Universal Religion is "the Best Reality" or "the Perfect Reality."

Basically "a Universal Religion" implies that the way God created the universe does not matter.

The "True Religion" implies that the way in which God created the universe does matter. The True Religion is "the Truth about Reality."

Therefore, the "True Religion" and the "Universal Religion" are two contradictory concepts.

"The Truth" can exist without "the True Religion" existing. For example, the Evolutionist or Creationist views are candidate "Truths." If we're just matter, and no God created the universe, then the Evolutionist view is the Truth but there is just no True Religion!!!!!

If the True Religion does not exist then we can have a Universal Religion. If the True Religion exists, we can't have a Universal Religion at the same time.

Testing the Theory
If this theory is correct, then let's test the theory on the world's religions.

The Roman Catholic Church claims to be "the Catholic Church." Catholic means "universal." Therefore, it claims to be the "Universal Church." However, the Roman Catholic Church also claims to be "the True Church." Looks like our theory doesn't agree with the Roman Catholic Church or any kind of "Catholic" Church.

Islam's teaching is that many messengers have come from the Divine, or that many religions have evolved from human ideas over time. It claims to be the Final Revelation. Some Islamic web sites and books say Islam is the True Religion, and that Judaism, Christianity and other religions are distortions. Other Islamic sources/commentaries say it is the Universal Religion.

There are two ways of looking at this. The messengers sent from the divine realms all told the truth and that Islam is the Final Revelation. This would follow that Islam is the Universal Religion. However, what if some of these "messengers" were liars, that is, some of them were false prophets and were sent by demons and evil spirits. Then it would follow that Islam claims to be the True Religion.

Does Islam fit? It would be helpful if we knew a bit more about the religion.

Ok, let's move on.

Does Christianity (Way of Christ) pass the test? The Christian Gospel claims to be the True Religion but not the Universal Religion. Just the Truth. It is about human beings following a "path toward holiness" ending when the person dies and God removes the "evil instincts" from the person's "self." This path is necessary because Adam ate the Forbidden Fruit. The Truth about the universe matters. You cannot believe in this path and others. Christianity passes the test.

Buddhism (Way of Buddha)? Buddhism's theory on life is that the aim is to drive out pleasure. This is because pleasure is temporal and putting one's hopes on pleasure that lasts will ultimately result in pain. Buddhism would probably be a Universal Religion because it does not matter how the universe was constructed.

Yoga? Yoga, I'm not too sure about, but from what I've heard, it's about reaching a "higher (individual) consciousness" and discovering "higher knowledge." It's a Universal Religion because the way the universe was created again doesn't matter.

New Age? New Age is a Universal Religion; there are "many truths." New Age is about achieving a "higher state of collective consciousness." Everything, all of Creation is bound together in one unified system. God is everything.

Basically, a person can achieve nirvana through either Buddhism, Yoga, New Age or all. You can reach the "nirvana of no pleasure" and the "nirvana of higher knowledge," or the "nirvana of unified collective consciousness."

There are many nirvanas. Buddhism, Yoga and New Age are Universal Religions and not "True" Religions. There is not "One Truth" but many "truths" and these are all part of the unified reality. New Age is just "the Super Nirvana." Actually, you could say it's one nirvana and the nirvanas from other nirvana religions are simply elements of its reality. Therefore they pass the test.

So, does the theory work?

The Choice - Three Brands of Religions

Originally Posted by suanni

If there was one true religion why has the Divine sent forth so many messengers to guide mankind upon his spiritual path and upon the guidance of the messenger a faith has been established? Has mankind missed the point with each new teacher?

Surely the true religion is the one that the individual feels spiritually fulfilled with.

I think all religions can be grouped into three main categories.

Buddhism, Yoga and New Age are about nirvana. They belong to the "Higher Consciousness" category.

Christianity, Judaism and Confucianism belong to the "Human Nature" category.

They are also cults and secret societies and these would belong to the "Ideological" category.

Choosing the "right religion" I believe is not just about its theory on life but also the category to which it belongs.

Originally Posted by sword and silver

However, if you are determermined to find the "one Truth", I'd suggest you look within, to do otherwise would be to look without.

Well, we now have three choices -- Nirvana, Human Nature and Ideology (Cults and Societies).

Which do you choose?