5-yr olds caged

I, Brian · 08-27-2003, 09:51 PM

I guess this makes world news, precisely because it is such a disgusting - and disturbing - case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3185381.stm

US couple held over caged boys

Police in the United States have arrested a couple who allegedly kept their twin five-year-old sons in cockroach-infested cages for 20 hours a day.

The children from Phoenix, Arizona were only allowed out when their mother Estelvina Rodriguez, 42, got home from work, police believe.

Officers discovered the twins on Saturday after their 20-year-old brother told an off-duty police officer at a local shop about their squalid living conditions.

They arrested the boys parents on suspicion of child abuse and kidnapping - the pair are being held on $243,000 bonds.

Mrs Rodriguez told police her husband Louis, 69, was in poor health and was unable to look after the boys.

Edna White, who has lived next door to the family for 27 years, said the boys were not toilet trained and could not walk.

"They can't talk. When they tried, just noises would come out," she said.

Cockroaches

Police found the boys in two cages made of plastic crates, railings and fridge shelves, wired together.

Cockroaches filled the cages which contained a blanket and small mattress smeared with faeces and urine.

The boys, who appeared healthy and well-fed were put in care along with their eight-year-old brother, who freely roamed the house.

"They were happy to see us and opened their arms wide, reaching out to be held and picked up," Sergeant Jacqui MacConnell said.

Social workers had visited the house twice - two years ago - to investigate a complaint of neglect, but found the boys in good health playing outside.

"The mum reported the kids once got outside and were bitten by a dog. She said they kept them caged for their own protection," Sergeant Randy Force said.

Ecclesiastes Girl · 08-28-2003, 10:09 AM

that's apalling... similarly, there was a case in the Philippines of quadruplets being caged while their mother was working...

17th Angel · 09-10-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I, Brian

I

Police in the United States have arrested a couple who allegedly kept their twin five-year-old sons in cockroach-infested cages for 20 hours a day.

That is an awesome space saving idea!!!

flowperson · 09-10-2007, 07:01 PM

Just to bring this "war against children" thingy more up to date, here's a little item I gleaned from the Daily Mail. BTW... these taser devices are made in ARIZONA, and are known to have killed adults.

Now police are told they can use Taser guns on children | the Daily Mail

And let's see..."hype cracy"..."hope crecy"..."help ocracy".... OK I give up... just how do you spell hypocrisy ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/us...hp&oref=slogin

flow....

wil · 09-10-2007, 08:37 PM

While my heart goes out to these poor children, it also goes out to the family that is in such straits to think this is a viable solution.

seattlegal · 09-10-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

While my heart goes out to these poor children, it also goes out to the family that is in such straits to think this is a viable solution.

Speaking of cages, check out Flow's NY Times link.

17th Angel · 09-11-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

While my heart goes out to these poor children, it also goes out to the family that is in such straits to think this is a viable solution.

*nods*

wil · 09-11-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Speaking of cages, check out Flow's NY Times link.

Yeah, I saw that and I am a little perplexed in this regard. I am of the opinion prisons/jails should not be incubators to create better, more informed, more motivated criminals.

Of those I know who went to prison that is much of what they got out of it...not much in the way of reform. The environment is such that the robbers, rapists, con artists, bombers whatever associate in similar cliques and exchange stories, what and how they got away with, what and how they got caught, what they would do differently how they could improve their trade, how to get past the parole board....

I know I am generalizing....but the only ones I met that weren't in that mode were the lifers...those that will never get out and became determined to make their stay the best....they became institutionalized, reformed to institutional life.

It seems to me that if we are going to send folks away for an extended period of time and then return them to the streets we should be taking an active role in their personal growth, mental stability and making an attempt to reverse the mindset that caused them to arrive there in the first place, ie deprogram the gang member and minimalize the contact with radical thinking....control of the books seems appropriate, of course the argument will always be who is in control??

It is a tough issue..... and again my heart goes out to these prisoners, who lived a life which made them believe that what sent them to jail was actually a good idea at the time. With over 3% of the US population in jail, we as a society are doing something wrong....

Muslimwoman · 09-17-2007, 03:56 PM

What makes me so, so , so , so angry is that people knew these children were being treated in this way and they did nothing.

After the older son had the courage to tell someone then the neighbours start talking about how awful it was - why didn't they do something or tell someone?

Sorry Flow but had to laugh at your NY link. The idea was to stop radical Islamic teaching and has resulted in an action by a Christian and an Orthodox Jew. Yep, have to agree with the sledgehammer to swat a fly analogy.

As each day passes I become more convinced that the world has finally gone stark raving bonkers.

17th Angel · 09-17-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

What makes me so, so , so , so angry is that people knew these children were being treated in this way and they did nothing.

After the older son had the courage to tell someone then the neighbours start talking about how awful it was - why didn't they do something or tell someone?

Sorry Flow but had to laugh at your NY link. The idea was to stop radical Islamic teaching and has resulted in an action by a Christian and an Orthodox Jew. Yep, have to agree with the sledgehammer to swat a fly analogy.

As each day passes I become more convinced that the world has finally gone stark raving bonkers.

Some people lack the.... *thinks of the best word to describe it...* ..Balls to do anything.....

Muslimwoman · 09-17-2007, 04:05 PM

You are right 17th but we hear these stories all the time, small children abused, tortured and killed by their parents but nobody says anything until after the fact, then everyone is a bloody expert. I just couldn't allow it to happen, I would have to act to protect the children and sod the consequences. Hell if we are not strong enough to protect the small innocent kids then what does that say about the level of apathy in our modern societies?

17th Angel · 09-17-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

You are right 17th but we hear these stories all the time, small children abused, tortured and killed by their parents but nobody says anything until after the fact, then everyone is a bloody expert. I just couldn't allow it to happen, I would have to act to protect the children and sod the consequences. Hell if we are not strong enough to protect the small innocent kids then what does that say about the level of apathy in our modern societies?

I am not that aware or used to child cases, but in animal cruelty cases majority of the time -many- people will have known about the case, and it does baffle you to wonder why now? Why at this point? Why not sooner? For people to stand up and come forward... There must be many issues but I wouldn't even hesitate to notify correct authorities of such an act be it a pet be it a son or be it a daughter.... The most annoying are the cases where it is too late or it has progressed to such a stage you are helpless to do anything.... That can cause frustration to why no one came forward... Mystery, then again what goes through some people's heads is just as confusing to me..... Not just the witnesses..

Muslimwoman · 09-17-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

That can cause frustration to why no one came forward... Mystery, then again what goes through some people's heads is just as confusing to me..... Not just the witnesses..

I have to take my hat off to people who work with abused children and animals. To be honest I had my fill in the RMP, it really gets under your skin, all you can do is the best you can at the time but you can't take away their pain and suffering. When you see the little naked body of a small child on a slab that has been abused, tortured and killed by parents I am afraid forgiveness is beyond me but to be honest I could forgive the parents more easily than those who knew what was happening. Clearly the parents have mental issues but what excuse do the silent witnesses have?!

17th Angel · 09-17-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I have to take my hat off to people who work with abused children and animals. To be honest I had my fill in the RMP, it really gets under your skin, all you can do is the best you can at the time but you can't take away their pain and suffering. When you see the little naked body of a small child on a slab that has been abused, tortured and killed by parents I am afraid forgiveness is beyond me but to be honest I could forgive the parents more easily than those who knew what was happening. Clearly the parents have mental issues but what excuse do the silent witnesses have?!

It can be hard to think... and to logically look at it with fair reasoning because all you see is that corpse and it is easy to be blind sided by hatred and rage when confronted by such an image.... a shocking image..... To just be calm I think and try to understand and reason with it.... Peer pressure? Physical pressure/threats? Simple misunderstanding? Not too sure what to do? Say not clear on rites and laws...... Quite a few more..... What would you do is someone knew it was going on then finally called you and you saved the child/animal or so on... Would you still not be able to forgive the witness? They did alert you... true delayed but they did gain courage or knowledge to notify you \; I just guess overall it's hard lol.

Muslimwoman · 09-17-2007, 05:26 PM

Better late than never 17th and certainly better late than after the fact. I would much rather be told a child had been abused for the past 5 years and be able to remove that child from the situation rather than wait until they were lying on a slab and have to listen to the whining excuses as to why the people that knew didn't say anything. I have to admit, it takes a great deal of strength not to lean over the table and knock their head off.

I always wanted to take the witnesses to the morgue and make them look at every bruise, every cut, every broken bone, make them touch the body, so they never had another nights decent sleep in their life. I know it would achieve nothing other than to alleviate my anger but it might make my dreams more peaceful?!