1,2,3,4,5 Elements

[Bruce Michael]

Hello All,
Ragon in his book on Masonry, mentions the curious fact that the first four numbers in German are named after the elements:
"Ein, or one, means the air, the element which, ever in motion,
penetrates matter throughout, and whose continual ebb and tide is the
universal vehicle of life.

"Zwei, two, is derived from the old German Zweig, signifying germ,
fecundity; it stands for earth the fecund mother of all.

Drei, three, is the trienos of the Greeks, standing for water, whence the Sea-Gods, Tritons; and trident, the emblem of Neptune- the water, or sea, in general being called Amphitrite (surrounding water).

Vier, four, the number meaning in Belgian "fire"....It is the quaternary that the first solid figure is found, the universal symbol of immortality, the Pyramid 'whose first syllable means fire.'...(pyre)

"Finally the Ancients represented the world by the number five. Diodorus
explains it by saying that his number represents earth, fire, water, air and ether or spiritus. Hence the origin of Pente (five) and of Pan (the God) meaning in Greek, all."
-From the 3rd Vol. of the Secret Doctrine.

-Br.Bruce

[ChristianMyst]

How interesting. To one who works with Nature People, these tid-bits of information provide greater depth in understanding their affects on the world.

[fourgrtkidos]

Very interesting, been wondering why I am drawn to the German language. But I do not get it.

Here is the translation:Ge
air, fire, earth, water, spirit

Luft, Feuer, Masse, Wasser, Geist

So where do the other words you were mentioning come in??
I want to get one of those dictionaries with root meanings to words.... what is the term.....

Morphology -- The Study of Words. and Their Meaningful Parts. What is a word?
A word is a unit of language that,. all by itself, has a meaning. ...
And the study word of histories (etymologies) by analyzing words into their component parts ...
Yeah, that........ Where did his info or roots/translation come from, I just don't get it....but, also, I had a large glass of wine. And no- I'm not being a smartass.
~Michelle

[flowperson]

Well Michelle...red or white is the first observation that I can think of. But I'm landing on the side of your approach here. Word etymologies are true indicators of meaning in language. When I read the Bible, I use a KJV version and I always trace as many word meanings as possible back to the original Chaldean and Greek in a Strong's Concordance. In that way many more conceptual meanings may be recovered in a passage, and when you string them together you obtain a clearer image of the author's intent.

But then number is also important. For example "Ein" an indicator of "one" or a unity is not necesarily an indicator of "air". Going back to the ancient Hebrew concepts and the beliefs also found in Kabbalah, you would more likely look upon that word as an indicator of the concept of "space" or "void" since the well known term "ein soph" was the primordial void out of which emerged the all of Creation in ten elements through the efforts of the hidden G-d.

Further, the numbers 1,2,3,4, indicate a ancient understanding of the process of creation that is oft cited as , "From the one came two, from the two came three, and from the three came many". The myth of Adam and Eve is reflective of this universally accepted truth that goes very far back in time, and curiously it is also basic to the understanding of how modern scientific theories have evolved regarding the development of complex systems in nature.

flow....

[fourgrtkidos]

What??? See, warned you in the introductions- that I am thick. Someone is ging to have to break this down very simply for me- even more simply than you did FLOW.
Even the "well known erm" ein soph..... is something I have never heard of

Bruce Michael, flow, Christianmyst..... want to tell me about some books to read???
Thanks,
Michelle

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by fourgrtkidos

What??? See, warned you in the introductions- that I am thick. Someone is ging to have to break this down very simply for me- even more simply than you did FLOW.
Even the "well known erm" ein soph..... is something I have never heard of

Bruce Michael, flow, Christianmyst..... want to tell me about some books to read???
Thanks,
Michelle

Hi Michelle...You still didn't tell me whether the culprit glass of wine was white or red. And as far as being thick, perhaps it's just a fixation that you developed from listening to Jethro Tull's, Thick As A Brick, once too often.

Anyway, there's really no need for books to reference a lot of the things we tend to talk about here. Even though academics sneer at it (I worked at a University and can tell you that most academics sneer at everything as a general principle) Wikipedia is still one of the best general references out there in net land, and it's FREE ! Here's some info on Jewish mystic beliefs and the "Ein Sof". Enjoy....

flow....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zohar

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by fourgrtkidos

What??? See, warned you in the introductions- that I am thick.
Thanks,
Michelle

We'll have no more of that.
Nowt wrong with your open mind, better than being filled up with clutter. A lot of what we think we know, we don't, it often turns out we were wrong!

s.

[wil]

Michelle it is a stretch....it may have some basis in fact but you have to play the puzzle....

with one they implied taking the last letter off and then a root of another German word..

with two it was germ=fecund=fecundity=mother earth=earth

For three we'll use a Greek puzzle and four for we'll use Belgian

Five back to the Greek... gotta have a playbook to keep up. Hence it being the secret code behind it all...sneaky Germans...or sneaky folks who made the Germans use those words...

It is like pronouncing ghoti as fish...

everyone is aware..wine or no wine...

gh from tough (f)

o from women (i)

ti from nation (sh)

if I were to write ghoti...how on earth would you think of pronouncing as other than fish?

ok...more wine

All good for fun....but where does it take us?

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by wil

For three we'll use a Greek puzzle and four for we'll use Belgian

You'd have to admit there is a strong connection between 'three' and water (the ocean).

Drei, three, is the trienos of the Greeks, standing for water, whence the Sea-Gods, Tritons; and trident, the emblem of Neptune- the water, or sea, in general being called Amphitrite (surrounding water).

The language was verbal firstly, and as we move from country to country the pronunciation changes- John, Jan (Yarn), Johan and Ian are all the same name.

So Tri becomes Drei- Trienos, Tritons, Amphitrite.

Vier-Fire-Four-Feuer

Blessings,
Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by flowperson

But then number is also important. For example "Ein" an indicator of "one" or a unity is not necesarily an indicator of "air". Going back to the ancient Hebrew concepts and the beliefs also found in Kabbalah, you would more likely look upon that word as an indicator of the concept of "space" or "void" since the well known term "ein soph" was the primordial void out of which emerged the all of Creation in ten elements through the efforts of the hidden G-d.

I like what you say about 'Ein' being the same as the Hebrew Ain/Ein. I have read that he Greek language was influenced by the ancient Hebrew.

Also Air the Element is Space. So thanks for that.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by ChristianMyst

How interesting. To one who works with Nature People, these tid-bits of information provide greater depth in understanding their affects on the world.

Well as you know there are the four types of Nature Beings- Gnomes/Kobolds, Undines/Nixies, Sylphs and Salamanders.

Ancient Peoples knew of all these connections and that is why they incorporated them into their number system.

In times past, miners found a substance which they said was made by the Kobolds- they called it 'Cobalt'. Another substance they called 'Nickel'- after the Nixies.

-Br.Bruce

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by fourgrtkidos

Bruce Michael, flow, Christianmyst..... want to tell me about some books to read???
Thanks,
Michelle

Greetings Michelle,
That question is best addressed to your Guardian Angel- who knows you a lot better than I do .
If you are earnest you will surely be led to the right material.

-Br.Bruce